Can someone explain the Khelif controversy?

[whatsinanameisthis]

I’ll start by saying I’ve read all the major news outlets coverage of the Khelif controversy and am still somewhat baffled. So wondering if anyone who has done more research than I can enlighten me.

From what I’ve read in the papers, Khelif was born a girl, is female, has lived her whole life as a woman. She is not trans, or a man. However she maybe has a condition which leads to elevated testosterone?

I’m trying to understand what the accusation is…

Do we think she’s really a trans man who is lying about having been born female?

Or are we saying that if she is a woman but with a condition, that people with that condition should be screened and excluded from the event? I understand that would seem if the condition isn’t her fault but of course differently abled people are all excluded from the mainstream olympics and instead compete in the paralympics. Or if this condition is real (I simply don’t know enough to understand), could the IOC mandate it’s treated before competitors participate?

Or is this even a question of doping? Is there a suggestion she has been taking testosterone to improve her performance?

Yes, we all know the discredited IBA SAID that she was XY, that was always what they said, but they refuse to provide the IOC with their evidence (which would not be illegal, it'd be sensible....).

Not true. The IOC have confirmed they have seen the test results.

Why on earth should they? It's their own private medical information, they should not have to release that to the world and they certainly shouldn't be cast as having ulterior motives for not wanting to do so. Considering most of mumsnet gets up in arms at the suggestion of having to put their pronouns on an email and yet you think this athlete should release their private medical information.
the fact is no one knows for sure and to go after this athlete the way people have is disgusting. The hatred and double standards by people on here is absurd.

How is it that these athletes are not failing the post match drugs tests which look for raised testosterone levels? I have googled but I can't find any definitive answer. Does anyone know?

the fact is no one knows for sure and to go after this athlete the way people have is disgusting. The hatred and double standards by people on here is absurd.

Sorry people are fed up with being gaslighted and lied to. It was always going to happen. Fairness and safety in sport are more important than the feelings of individual athletes.

And the IBA didn't carry out the tests. Court of sport arbitration labs did. Are you saying the CSA is corruot and can't be trusted too? At what point would you accept that these boxers are male?

@Jo7890123

I don't think they look for testosterone - they look for drug. Lots of doping isn't done with testosterone.

So that makes it okay does it? This person is acceptable collateral damage because the internet needs a witch hunt. Grow up

No, people with XY chromosomes need to compete in the correct sex category, unless it's proven that they have no advantage over women. Hope that helps.

So female boxers risking death or brain injury is okay is it? They are acceptable collateral damage because some people's feelings are more important than safety and fairness. Grow up.

But we don't know what chromosomes they have....that's the point. We (the internet) are not the experts and it's disturbing how people feel entitled to speak on matters when they actually don't know the facts and then go after that person.

That's always been a risk of boxing. It's an inherently dangerous sport that all the athletes have chosen to take the risk of. We do not know that these athletes are not female, we don't not know their testosterone levels, we do not know their chromosomes. So to go after someone the way people have based on information you do not know it appalling

We have the fact that this person was disqualified on sex grounds from another boxing tournament. That means that they are likely to have a male DSD. I don't see what your point is.

Other than "be kind and silent ladies while male people take it all".

Does one need to have a life altering injury to make people consider this risk?

There are plenty of people on X hoping that the women boxing with Khelif will receive such injuries. Why? Because they have dared to resist, or cry, or say it's not fair.

Many people wouldn't care if a woman was killed by a man. They seem positively delighted at the idea.

Once again, this issue reveals the truly disturbing levels of misogyny in the world.

Reams of pity and sympathy for the XY boxers, who may have apparently had difficult upbringings or histories, or be hurt by their sex being talked about.

Fuck all sympathy, in fact the opposite, for the women who are facing serious injury or worse.

That's always been a risk of boxing. It's an inherently dangerous sport that all the athletes have chosen to take the risk of.

Why do you think weight classes exist? Do you think they should not?

And yet they have been allowed entry into all but one competition. It was only one they were disqualified for - we do not know why they were. We do not know what tests were done or the results of those tests. Like you said - they are likely to. Not they definitely do. Going after this person based on information you don't have is dangerous. Leave it to the experts

do not know what tests were done

We have a very good idea, because it's been stated that they are based on XY/XX and not testosterone levels.

What other "gender" tests can you think of?

Many people wouldn't care if a woman was killed by a man. They seem positively delighted at the idea.

Once again, this issue reveals the truly disturbing levels of misogyny in the world.

Reams of pity and sympathy for the XY boxers, who may have apparently had difficult upbringings or histories, or be hurt by their sex being talked about.

Fuck all sympathy, in fact the opposite, for the women who are facing serious injury or worse.

Exactly, great post.

That's always been a risk of boxing. It's an inherently dangerous sport that all the athletes have chosen to take the risk of.

We do not know that these athletes are not female, we don't not know their testosterone levels, we do not know their chromosomes.

But today we can see that the IOC did know, in 2023.

And re the 'inherently dangerous' point - isn't that why we have categories in boxing? To make it a sport of matched partners, rather than an unfair fight?

Shrugging and saying 'well you knew it was dangerous when you went in the ring' when your opponent is male really is a nasty kind of misogyny.

Of course I do, it should be as fair as possible. We don't know that that fight wasn't fair, this is my point - we do not know any information to say both these athletes were not female and fine to fight each other. Yes the athlete was disqualified in one competition - we don't know what test was done....why weren't they disqualified from previous competitions? I'm saying the simple fact is people going round calling this person trans, and then no they're a biological man, now it's they have XY chromosomes but female genitalia. It's gross that people are speculating in this way about these athletes with no information to back up their claims

They were asked if they like pink and if they wear lipstick?

Gender tests consist of a protractor-measured head tilt angle, I believe.

I'm saying the simple fact is people going round calling this person trans

Only people who aren't familiar with this issue. Not gender critical feminists, because we know what DSDs are perfectly well.

Bingo

Boxing is dangerous so it doesn't matter if men beat up women in the ring or even kill them.

Would you put a featherweight male boxer in the ring with Anthony Joshua and say it doesn't matter if he has a high risk of death?

Pitting men against women makes mockery of the categories that exist between women because of safety. Women in the lower weight categories would be safer boxing against women is the top weight category than they are against Khelif.

Tinkliness of laugh? Flickability of hair?