Can someone explain the Khelif controversy?

[whatsinanameisthis]

I’ll start by saying I’ve read all the major news outlets coverage of the Khelif controversy and am still somewhat baffled. So wondering if anyone who has done more research than I can enlighten me.

From what I’ve read in the papers, Khelif was born a girl, is female, has lived her whole life as a woman. She is not trans, or a man. However she maybe has a condition which leads to elevated testosterone?

I’m trying to understand what the accusation is…

Do we think she’s really a trans man who is lying about having been born female?

Or are we saying that if she is a woman but with a condition, that people with that condition should be screened and excluded from the event? I understand that would seem if the condition isn’t her fault but of course differently abled people are all excluded from the mainstream olympics and instead compete in the paralympics. Or if this condition is real (I simply don’t know enough to understand), could the IOC mandate it’s treated before competitors participate?

Or is this even a question of doping? Is there a suggestion she has been taking testosterone to improve her performance?

Or the 2016 Rio women’s 800 m race - Gold, Silver and Bronze were all males there too. But bad as it was with racing the true female winners ‘just’ missed out on medals, money and plaudits. In boxing fighting against men is risking their lives.

and women are just there to bulk up the numbers provide validation.

HAHAHA!
No Jo, you're so wrong it’s laughable.
The boxers in question were both tested and the only test they did was a sex test.
The IOC did used to do sex testing but chose to stop it - god knows why, athletes want it reintroduced. The IOCs only justification for allowing a male into the female category is that said males have got F on their passports. That’s the only reason. Most likely he was born with ambiguous genitalia and parents were advised to raise him as a girl - thats very very common.There is only one way to be female, as you, I and JK Rowling knows. That’s to have XX sex chromosomes. Nothing to do with appearance, size, hobbies, sexual orientation.

It’s an incredibly sad situation for the boxers in question who may have been raised as female, but that doesn’t give them carte blanche to enter a boxing ring and batter females.

This has been a really interesting and helpful thread - thanks for starting it OP.

One other very real possibility for Khelif is if he is heterosexual, and therefore attracted to females, he has 2 choices living in a strict Muslim country. He can live his life as a female and pretend he is attracted to males, therefore not be subjected to draconian laws on homosexuality in his country, or he can live his ‘authentic’ self, as a straight male, and have relationships with females but risk imprisonment if some others see him as female.
Its a dreadful position for him to find himself.
https://www.humandignitytrust.org/country-profile/algeria/

Or he could take the medical evidence to the authorities and have his official ID changed to 'male' on perfectly legitimate grounds.

And, incidentally, box against men.

I actually think the IOC have done absolutely everyone a disservice in this whole debacle.

The athletes under suspicion, the other competitors and the general public.

Just do the damn sex testing and everyone will be happier. Assuming the sex if the athletes is as above board as they suggest...

The IOC are refusing to do sex testing because they want to have men in women’s sports. They are not testing these boxers because they are happy for them to compete even though they know they are male. They are in hoc to the genderists

A problem for me now of the IOC doing the testing, is I don't trust them as far as I can throw them. Having heard their ridiculous responses at the press reviews, and knowing they have let men with dsds in the past compete as females, I would say it is they that are the far more likely to be corrupt than world boxing.

They clearly do want that @KielderWater, but my question now goes beyond that.

Why do the IOC want males in women's sports? What's in it for them?

I guess it's the flip of the question why they didn't want women's sports in the first place. Women has been fighting long and hard for over a hundred years to get an equal programme. They met resistance at every turn.

There's the obvious possibilities such as corruption via money, ideologues heading up the organisation or pressure from powerful lobbyists /governments who are wedded to extreme DEI.

I think another possibility is ratings. Providing you can gaslight the public enough to disbelieve their own eyes then adding males to female sports allows the opportunity for spectacular record breaking moments.

Not the run of the mill X person beats world record by quarter of a second that we often get now across male and female sports but the big visual spectacles we saw in the earlier years of the Olympics when new frontiers in healthcare, funding and opportunity meant we had a lot of those world beating moments.

If you can convince everyone that Joe Bloggs is really Jane Bloggs then what a visual feast it is to see 'her' sprint to victory many metres in front of the 'other' women. Truly world beating, record breaking, crowd pulling stuff dreams are made of. Go girls! Look what you can achieve now. So brave. So stunning.

The money will follow.

Maybe Mark Adams IS Felix. Look, it very well may not be true but I'm getting the same lying misogynist vibes so I think this totally unevidenced assertion should henceforth be considered as fact.

What other "gender" tests can you think of?

The feels. Obvs.

Are they the same person? We just don't know.

They could, of course, be the same type.

I’m looking forward to the anti doping tests that the medalists will have to undergo.

Of course it will be waved away as ‘women with unfeasibly naturally high testosterone’

Who's Feliz?

Ah, that makes sense @OvaHere. I had assumed money but couldn't work it out. It'll come.

I think corruption and ideologues is more likely. The public will quickly turn off men winning women’s medals.

Have the IOC made promises to individual atheletes, teams, governments or sponsors that require them not to require testing in future? They have been hyping up these games as the most gender equal.

If location of next games requires self-ID because of location could this be part of the answer? They can't bring in sex matters ideas now and be set up for self-ID in 2028? Or is that plainly paranoid thinking?

www.thepinknews.com/2019/01/03/california-gender-self-id/

I used to think that. I'm less sure now. 😢

I think it would depend. I think the "does it affect me" factor is strong.

In "GB", to use Olympic parlance, if a female athlete were disadvantaged by a male bodied but female identified rival, it would be interesting to hear opinions.

And if the Lionesses were beaten by a team which included male bodied footballers...

'The public will quickly turn off men winning women’s medals.'

But they haven't though. There are many many members of the public who are wholeheartedly supporting men winning women's medals. They somehow think they're being kind. Whilst not being remotely kind to the women involved.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/sms.14581

Useful paper commenting on how the IOC's framework for fairness and inclusion -

https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-releases-framework-on-fairness-inclusion-and-non-discrimination-on-the-basis-of-gender-identity-and-sex-variations

is not fair nor inclusive for women/females.

Yes they're all like "this is a strong brave stunning woman being harassed by far right groups"

In actuality, men cheating at women's sports