Where to find reputable sources re boxing controversy

[DSDornot]

I have been reading up on this. I fully oppose men in women's spaces and have been enraged by the Olympic boxing fiasco.
I follow JK, Sharron Davies and Martina Navratilova on X, Plus other more scientific commentators and believe in all they write.
However, I accept that I'm reading/listening to my own echo chamber. Apart from vile abuse and anonymous accounts, is there anyone notable I should look at who will give the opposite view (that self ID or DSD should be allowed in women's sport) - just so I can assess and know that I have a balanced viewpoint?

It is being directed at the IOC. Perhaps you should spend less time on twitter?

Interestingly, the IOC has never denied the validity of the tests.

They have said that sex testing is 'awful', they have said that the reason for commissioning tests was unconventional, they have said 'but ... passports'. However they have never suggested the tests are wrong.

The also issued a correction to a statement they made that this was not DSD issue. They made a statement to say that and then they expressly corrected it.

So ... now what?

Christ on a bike, but the IBA are not letting this go 😬

Sex testing was removed from the Olympics in 1999 despite 80% of women saying they wanted it to continue.

In 2009, it became clear that there was an issue with the sex of some athletes.

In 2015, The Court of Arbitration in Sport ruled on Dutee Chand https://plawyered.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/dutee-chand-v-athletics-federation-of-india-afi-the-international-association-of-athletics-federations-iaaf.pdf and the IOC responded

https://stillmed.olympic.org/Documents/Commissions_PDFfiles/Medical_commission/2015-11_ioc_consensus_meeting_on_sex_reassignment_and_hyperandrogenism-en.pdf

In 2019, the Court of Arbitration in Sport ruled on Caster Semenya https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Executive_Summary__5794_.pdf

In 2021 the IOC issued revised guidelines: https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Documents/Beyond-the-Games/Human-Rights/IOC-Framework-Fairness-Inclusion-Non-discrimination-2021.pdf

International Federation of Sports Medicine (FIMS) and European Federation of Sports Medicine Associations (EFSMA) comment on it
https://bmjopensem.bmj.com/content/bmjosem/8/1/e001273.full.pdf

In September 2021 the UK Sports Councils issued their guidelines: https://movingtoinclusion.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Guidance-For-Transgender-Inclusion-In-Domestic-Sport-2021.pdf

In 2024 the IOC issued 'Portrayal Guidelines' https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Documents/Beyond-the-Games/Gender-Equality-in-Sport/IOC-Portrayal-Guidelines.pdf

Swimming Rules: https://resources.fina.org/fina/document/2023/03/27/dbc3381c-91e9-4ea4-a743-84c8b06debef/Policy-on-Eligibility-for-the-Men-s-and-Women-s-Competiition-Categrories-Version-on-2023.03.24.pdf

Athletics rules (downloads available by link from this document) https://worldathletics.org/news/press-releases/council-meeting-march-2023-russia-belarus-female-eligibility

Cycling Rules: https://www.uci.org/transgender-athletes/4c14yVCbPNB8bpZJaMpQCI

Rugby Rules (I couldn't find the rules on DSD - only trans - but the discussion is interesting https://www.world.rugby/the-game/player-welfare/guidelines/transgender

(These 4 have rules regarding 2.5nmol/L testosterone and not experiencing male puberty - I do not know which other sports have updated their rules.)

Football; https://inside.fifa.com/tournaments/womens/womensworldcup/germany2011/news/fifa-issues-gender-verification-regulations-for-all-competitions-1449540.

This article hints at the fact that there are different guidelines between the Confederation of African Football and FIFA.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jul/25/zambias-barbra-banda-create-my-own-name-leave-my-mark

IBA Rules: https://www.iba.sport/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/20240303-IBA-Technical-Competition-Rules-v7-clean.pdf

Paris Boxing Unit Rules: https://olympics.com/athlete365/app/uploads/2023/04/PARIS-2024-BOXING-UNIT-EVENT-REGULATIONS-VERSION-1.0.pdf

I don't know the status or details of other sports but Sharron Davies has hinted that in other combat sports, there are XY people in the XX competition. I have no source for that either.

I have to admit my own bias and I have not searched too hard for the opposing position but I did find this podcast (with transcript) which gives an alternative perspective without the current hyperbole and includes links about Dutee Chand and Maria Patiño who have CAIS. https://www.ladyscience.com/podcast/history-of-sex-verification-women-sports.

No. I'm waiting til they say what they plan to do. Now that's come out I'm sure further comms will be forthcoming. Let's give them a few days to decide on appropriate action.
You could just ask rather than assuming.

I'm barely on there, but given the absolute state of my "for you" page at the moment I can safely say the twittersphere has lost any sense of proportion. Its pretty disgusting and I deeply question the motives of some of those stirring it. I've also seen this case mentioned on threads on here as justification for riots due to "reasonable concerns" being ignored.

We've already seen posters on this thread saying they are unsure of how to treat posters with CAIS or Swyers (XY genotype, female phenotype). So what would you do if you were the IOC?

I'd go XX only in womens sport. And I think that's where we will ultimately end up but it's going to take a while to get there and vilifying individual competitors online in the meantime is unlikely to speed that up.

Oops, I meant competitors not posters,apologies

I wish Athletics, Swimming, Cycling, Rugby et al would speak up. They have looked at this from all angles and have come to reasoned conclusions.

Just for anyone interested in the press conference today
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/imane-khelif-xy-chromosomes-gender-test-boxing-b2591357.html

I think they're still hoping to ride it out - to silence those of us asking for clarification and call us bigots.

I don't think they plan to do anything.

Of course they will, there is way too much noise to ignore it. Now it's confirmed that the competitors aren't XX genetically there will be further questions asked.

It's not like other sports decided to be female only out of the goodness of their hearts. It took controversies like this. It shouldn't have to but pragmatically that's what makes the difference.

I guess you have more faith than me. It looks a lot like they are trying to pivot to Russian disinformation or it being as a result of whatever other beef they have with the IBA. A lot of the media is helping them with that narrative.

I agree with this, though I hope @CassieMaddox is right

I've not been following it hugely closely due to the amount of divisive noise about it so could well be wrong. But when so many prominent sports people are pointing out the injustice, including Nicola Adams, I don't think its going to go away easily.

I found this X post by Carole Hooven very helpful re the biological impact of testosterone & 5-ARD which may or may not be relevant in this case (she has also published a book on this topic): x.com/hoovlet/status/1819449064590582073?s=46&t=b8thi9moltrVJub81A_CGw

They're not going to do anything...except let this blow over like it has before with Laurel Hubbard etc. Unless all the male athletes en masse decided to boycott - which they would actually take notice of - they are going to ignore the criticism and carry on.