Thread 2: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

[Signalbox]

A second thread for those who wish to continue the discussion.

Thread 1 can be found here...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5129412-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?page=1

It would probably suit the IOC agenda if the fight with Luca Anna Hanori doesn't take place today.

I was having a rant earlier and my oh said 'but I thought the Algerian boxer is female but with higher than normal testosterone". I asked if he read that on Reddit (he spends a lot of time on there) and he said "No, on BBC News" 😩

Yes the Bbc has spread utter misinformation on this - that doesn't even match the ioc statements. God knows where they're getting it from, it's just blatant lies.

Both ioc and iba have said no testosterone tests have been done. Just totally made up.

Then they go on to say there's 'misinformation' being spread elsewhere. The hypocrisy is unacceptable in a state broadcaster.

Twitter is full of men pontificating about this & it’s giving me the rage!!! It’s either

a. Women should just refuse to box them. Yes that’s right it’s up to women to sacrifice their training and ambitions
b long winded explanations of why sex isn’t binary you silly wims. It’s soooooo much more complicated (though only not so much when men are looking to become fathers)
c what so women who don’t look feminine are men now?
d. Oh well why don’t we just ban women like Simon biles from competing because they’re muscular and ensure all women competitors look like holly willoughy amirite lads? Hurrr hurrrr

Give me fucking strength

What happened to BBC Verify. Are they just making stuff up now?

Les Dennis has apologised on the assertion Khelif is male. The Daily Mail shows Khelif as a little girl (not as a post pubescent teen interestingly). No one is saying Khelif has anything in common with Caster Semenya.

I don't understand because my eyes are seeing post pubescent males? They both failed gender tests previously. I don't understand tbh. Are the media not reporting properly or is there a genuine lack of information about what is going on?

However reddit thinks that the bbc is a cesspool of transphobia <facepalm>

My interpretation of the IBA statements btw, is that they state a biological advantage has been found, and that they have been disqualified due to gender rules - not testosterone.

For that 'advantage' to have been found, they must also be aware of testosterone levels, however it is that pesky 'Y' that makes them ineligible.

When they say the gender test is not testosterone-based, I don't think they are saying they didn't test it at all, just that it is the XX/XY test that is particularly relevant.

Is that how anyone else is reading it? Cause I keep seeing over and over "testosterone wasn't tested" - and I don't read the statement as saying that?

I had a literal geologist arguing that I wasn't qualified to discuss it earlier. My quals are biochem and genetics.
He was male though, so obviously his Y chromosome counts more than the ones I studied 🤔

Oh agreed! And the number of women repeating utter craziness over and over to argue that these men are women. Why?!

My head hurts...

That is maddening!

I think this is what Emma Hilton is saying in this tweet, Beyond.

'Reading the statements etc, I think there is room for misunderstanding of “no T testing”.

The IBA has a drugs testing regime and I assume Khelif was as tested as any other boxer. I doubt there is no record of T levels.

When sex identification is performed, there are various inputs that can be used to form a clear picture. If you look at workflows, a big chunk of these tests are endocrinology - testosterone, forms of testosterone, induction of testosterone release, other sex hormones etc.

There is - perhaps rightly, I’m sympathetic to the argument - the premise that athletes who consent to doping screens are not explicitly consenting to sex testing (although we clearly understand results may flag something about sex). That is, it is unethical to use results from Process 1 (consent given) to inform conclusions about Process 2 (consent not sought).

So perhaps the IBA were referencing that they didn’t do endo profiles as part of the sex identification process? As I say, I doubt there are no T records anywhere. Offered for discussion.'

x.com/FondOfBeetles/status/1819400409842123153

They appear to be. In one day I heard the bbc say as statements of fact they are women with high testosterone - no evidence given, they are women who are intersex (a discriminatory term people with dsds have repeatedly asked broadcasters not to use) again no evidence given (unsurprisingly as 'intersex' is not a thing) and they are 'not trans' again no evidence given for this 'fact'.

They did not refer to the publicly available statements from IBA or ioc nor apply any journalistic scrutiny of the vast gulf between the two. So yes, I'm assuming just made up to whatever suits their agenda?

Believe your eyes.
The tests conducted by the IBA - chromosomal tests - confirmed that both boxers are male. The tests revealed XY chromosomes. The boxers accepted the results
They probably have a DSD but that information is confidential.
The media indeed putting out misinformation either deliberately or unknowingly.

It's kind of unbelievable the power the ioc has to get people to say things the don't believe.

People have eyes but are apparently easily coerced.

I don't think the purpose of BBC Verify was upholding the truth.

They aren’t reporting properly.

A significant number of successful DSD (male) athletes have a condition called 5ARD which means they look vaguely female at birth but at puberty it becomes obvious a mistake was made. In some parts of the world 5ARD is colloquially known as ‘Penis at 12’.

Any photos of small child with this condition are likely to show them dressed as girls, because they were wrongly assumed to be girls until puberty kick started their testicular growth.

What happened to today's boxing match? I thought it would have happened by now, but I've not seen anything about it?

I thought it was scheduled for 16:20

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/guevedoces-the-girls-who-grow-penises-at-the-age-of-12-10510919.html

We've had people with no skills in scientific or clinical literacy argue that the Cass Review is wrong and fatally flawed despite the reality that the York group that conducted it has a (deserved) reputation as global leaders in such work.

The same people (no qualifications or experience in (paediatric) medicine or any other relevant discipline) have disdained the work history and attainments of Cass.

It's truly astonishing to encompass the remarkable arrogance of some people. (And that's before considering the powerful self-confidence that the Y chromosome can confer.)

Oops, you are quite right. I'm not sure why I thought it was in the AM

I’m still feeling a little delicate after DS2 trotted out all the tropes to tell me I was wrong, after a quick glance of the headlines.

New uneducated argument of today is "she's XXY" 🙄

Ah yes, klinefelters - that condition that results in babies who are registered as male but become feminised at puberty. That matches every fact that is known about these competitors! /s
Smh.

Coming up shortly.