Thread 2: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

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A second thread for those who wish to continue the discussion.

Thread 1 can be found here...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5129412-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?page=1

Shocked. But I wouldn't call trying to protect your female boxer from being battered by a man, 'bad faith'.

And they can call it what they like, the unravelling has begun.

This is a really good overview of the whole situation...

To be fair, it's not as if the IOC has been amazingly supportive of including women's events. They've been mardy about it for decades and putting up ridiculous opposition. (See how long it took for women's sprint events to be included and then the marathon.)

It's possibly the IOC's dream come true that they can look to a future in which more women's events can be included and will be the realm of male champions.

This is a really good overview of the whole situation...

I wish commentators would stop the use of the wholly inappropriate term, "intersex".

Sorry if it's been said already but might all the female competitors would be prepared to sacrifice their competition and refuse to fight the male competitors, let them win the medals to bring the issue to the forefront of the agenda?
Awful that women would need to do so.

Thanks for passing that on, ScrollingLeaves
I've noticed a typo - I should have said hip-to-shoulder ratio, not hip-to-waist ratio.

Also somewhere there is a more detailed explanation by either NotBadConsidering or NoBinturongsHereMate. (Apologies, I get your usernames mixed up.) If I come across it again, I'll copy and save it.

The interview I posted above asked this question.

Marshi Smith, NCAA champion and co-founder of ICONS thinks it highly unlikely that competitors will boycott and explains why here...

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Sorry this is a better clip to explain why women are not boycotting...

It's a conspiracy I tells ya!

A conspiracy!!

Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it infamy!

I feel so weird/sick inside knowing that women are scheduled to compete against these erroneously categorised fighters.

Cannot imagine how the women themselves must be feeling. I hope they know that we are standing with them whether they decide to soldier on (due to all sorts of external pressures) or whether they decide to withdraw/concede.

I’m disgusted that the IOC would allow their inclusive, anti women ideology to play out in fucking COMBAT SPORTS of all places.

This is where the wheels come off for the IOC.

Either every country starts fielding pretend females to the point where competition becomes such a clown show viewers can no longer tell they're not watching a men's event.

Or countries who are sending real female athletes in good faith get increasingly angry and vocal with the IOC maybe resulting in lawsuits and other legal action.

It's real sunlight on how the men in charge don't like women saying 'no' but also they have no good arguments. If these competitors were female it could have been resolved very quickly without all the word salad and claims that passports are the most useful way of assessing sex 🤦‍♀️

too right. This is not going away, and unless the IOC are taking orders from WPATH (I do wonder sometimes) they must realise this is a complete shit show. I would love to be a fly on the wall at the debrief where one imagines there might be some plain speaking.

I've been blocked on Twitter for posting:

"Thank you! Journalists should look at all sports who have failed to implement eligibility criteria of maximum testosterone levels of 2.5nmol/L and not having experienced male puberty for the female class. Those sports should be called to account" on Sharron Davies' feed.

Yesterday I was blocked from a facebook group "women hold up half the sky" for posting sections of the Court of Arbitration in Sports judgement from 2019 which provides justification for the protection of the female category.

Thank heavens for Mumsnet.

It’s being reported on Twitter by someone who calls themselves a journalist (v small following though so poss fake) that the Hungarian boxer has been threatened by the IOC with sanctions for her Instagram posts.

https://x.com/Yani_Abdelli/status/1819454793292583406

Regardless of whether this twitter account is credible I can absolutely believe the women are being pressured and threatened. We've seen it across many other sports.

Once you tell lies that few are willing to buy all you have left is coercion and threats.

Culture of immunity and impunity.

I've no doubt the IOC will weather this as they have every asinine action or indication of corruption.

I'd happily shout that I'm wrong from any rooftop and couldn't be more pleased if that we so. I'll put a 2 year marker down for that.

If true it's all a bit Stalinist. What next, struggle sessions for female athletes who recognize biological sex?

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/boxing/1931702/Imane-Khelif-Olympics-complaint

"The Algerian Olympic Committee have submitted an official complaint to the IOC over the treatment of boxer Imane Khelif after a wave of abuse."

This includes offensive social media posts by an upcoming opponent. I saw one of them where Imane is hatefully depicted as a beast.

Carini has also made an apology.

I really dislike boxing, and I don't celebrate combat sports which might cause horrible injuries regardless of who is fighting who. However, putting this aside, I'm wondering whether the current debate is also providing a convenient cover for something that goes wider than the arguments and supposed justifications by the IOC about including female-passported XY men in XX sports.

I don't understand what's gone on between boxing's international governing body and the IOC but a quick Google seems to suggest that there's been a significant breakdown between the two organisations and an ongoing question over boxing being included as a sport at the 2028 Olympics. To lose representation at an Olympic level is huge for the grassroots of any sport and I'm sure the politics behind the scenes will have been horrible.

The IOC are under pressure to introduce new sports all the time but they can only do this at the expense of cancelling existing ones. There's not enough time or money to include the lot. I am wondering whether deliberately allowing (and maybe even facilitating?) the worsening of cracks conveniently appearing in the functioning of Olympic boxing will enable the IOC to justify, with public support, its removal in 2028 so freeing up space for something new to take its place.

(In case of any confusion, I am very much against the inclusion of men in women's sports but I would be very happy to see boxing go because of the violence to anyone)

I'm sure they have. They've been found out and don't like it.

As for Carini making an apology, we've seen forced apologies across the board in women's sport over the last few years. So it's not evidence of anything. I fully believe the IOC will pressure and threaten female athletes who try to speak out.

Not sure if this has been posted yet but good for the IBA, they know she was cheated.

Angela Carini to be awarded prize money by IBA despite Olympic loss to Imane Khelif | The Independent

A man who hits women is a beast. He knows he's male and doesn't care

Any abuse received by any of the boxers involved is the IOCs fault for allowing this situation.

And any apology at metaphorical gunpoint means nothing. Carini wants to compete again so she has to comply with Big Brother (the IOC).