Help me present evidence to my son

[AlbertaWildRose]

My DS is 18 and heavy into the TWAW belief. He thinks JK Rowling is a despicable human being for her position and thinks that women should have no problem with all of this, and it's all just "scare-mongering" to say otherwise. Whenever I try to talk to him about this I end up getting too emotional to be rational. I really want to present him with evidence that this movement is not good for women - please help direct me to some good resources. Thank you.

And I think the poster who mentions a male PE teacher raises valid points. Most people would agree that a male PE teacher shouldn’t be around girls when they are changing. But what changes if over the 6 week holidays that PE teacher comes out to his wife and family as identifying as a woman? Should he then be ok to be in with the girls? I can’t understand why anyone would say coming out as trans should alter things so much. Or should a male PE teacher come out as non binary but IDing as female be allowed? This is the real world practicalities, and no matter how squeaky clean he may be what differentiates him from the other lovely male PE teachers? It’s like the feelings of the girls and their discomfort is ignored.

Some violent males are still being sent to low security women's prisons. Joanna Rowland Stuart, charged with murdering his husband, is currently in Downview prison (snd still being described as a "woman" in the press).

www.brightonandhovenews.org/2024/07/24/brighton-woman-70-appears-before-court-charged-with-murdering-husband/

Some violent males are still being sent to low security women's prisons. Joanna Rowland Stuart, charged with murdering his husband, is currently in Downview prison (snd still being described as a "woman" in the press).

Good point. I think they are doing it on the technicality that he has been violent to a man rather than a woman. Or maybe he has a GRC, who knows?

I wouldn’t bother getting all upset and citing evidence- it’s a mindset and makes you look desperate.

I just eye rolled and said men can’t be women and the consequences of enforcing this belief are bad for women in many ways. Not all women consent to this ideology so their views need to be respected and take priority over men’s beliefs. End of.

Thankfully dd1 never got into this and after experiencing men’s grim behaviour dd2 at 15 is extremely pro women only spaces and said so in her pshe lesson. Every other girl and the teacher whole heartedly agreed with her. The younger generation coming up now seem to have seen through this thankfully

Downview is where the high security trans unit for men with GRCs was for the most dangerous men with GRCs. Where they were allowed to mix with the female prisoners for their own benefit, because women are just props in men's lives.

Yes, I also wouldn't take it particularly seriously, I'd roll my eyes as a pp suggests.

the science of sport podcast

lays it out very clearly.
is about the boxing cheat in particular, but also about msle physiology in general.

Your friend is ‘living as a transwoman’, which is a type of man and that’s fine. They can’t ’live as a woman’ because a woman is not a ‘way of life’ it is a word used to describe a member of the female sex. It’s interesting you mention the pressure to “act like a man” highlighting how much of this is about stereotypes. Transitioning bakes those stereotypes in, which is one reason why many feminists have a problem with the whole concept.

I’d ‘transition’ OP, even better if his dad will play along and do it too (not permanently obviously), and then play out all those sexist stereotypes in reverse. Show him what he’s supporting. I find seeing things with my own eyes far more compelling than someone trying to change my mind.

The Olympics dispute is over a man with an (unspecified DSD) who was tested by the IBA in 2023 and found to have XY chromosomes - that makes him a man and he should not be fighting a woman.
There is no implication that trans identified males so identify to put up cameras or masturbate in women's lavatories (what an odd thing to do). The point being made is that if you insist on TWAW and allow men who identify as women into such spaces then it allows all men into those spaces, and some men will use this to put up cameras etc.
You need to pick out the salient points of an argument and not assume that what you think it implies is actually implied. Read the words.

Re the boxer, there is an implication someone else has picked up. The IOC do not want to talk about chromosomes which suggests they are gearing up to allow more trans-identified men into women's sports. Admitting that the boxer in question has XY chromosomes and that this is significant would disqualify all transwomen, who will have XY chromosomes.

@Littlepinkstarsbyradish I don't really understand how what you have written translates to Laura being a woman. Plenty of people of both sexes have those experiences. There is a 50 year old trans woman in a local athletics club who insists on changing with the girls who don't want to. Do you think that's fair?

That's not what's happening and you know it.

But the reason there are women-only spaces is because we do (necessarily) judge an entire group (men) by the very worst behaviour of some, it's precautionary. Transwomen are NOT women, they are men, and they pose the same risk as other men.

No, the fight between a male with F on his passport and a female.

Yes this for what feels like the eleventy billionth time

my DH is lovely & harmless. He wouldn’t hurt a fly. However he’s still a man which is why he’s kept out of women’s spaces. he understands it’s not personal - it’s because he’s male

we keep TW out for the same reason because they are men. Being male is the qualification fir being a TW

I really don’t see what’s so hard to understand about this

However, you forget to mention that the overwhelming majority of sex offenders are male, and 100% of TW are also male. Offending records show that TW sex offenders are much more highly represented in the general male prison population.
We have single sex provision in certain areas for the safety, protection and dignity of females, that’s why no males should be allowed into those specific spaces, regardless of how they ‘identify’.

I slightly disagree. I think anyone who believes that women and girls should welcome biological men into their female only spaces should be shamed.

He knows he’s male. His trainers know he’s male. His country knows he’s male. Even knowing this, he still decided it was ok to get into a boxing ring and batter a female. Just because the IOC rule of self ID says he can fight as a female, it doesn’t mean he should. Patriarchy at its most finest!

It's astonishing that some people still use the "you can't tar them all with the same brush!" argument when it comes to prisons.

Hello, this is prison.

Every single person there has been convicted of a serious offence resulting in a custodial sentence.

But you want us to assume that they are fluffy little bunnies until proven otherwise?

OK...

🙃

Your colleague “Laura” is likely APG. You’ve been sold a sob story.

A lot of the discussion tends to ask me to judge an entire group by the very worst behaviour of some, and i wouldnt expect every middle aged white man to be a paedophile so it seems inherently unfair to ask me to expect every trans woman to be a predator and limit their rights accordingly.

We have always limited males' access to female-only spaces even though we know they are not all predators. Transwomen are male (and have male offending patterns, since you like your data). So why on earth wouldn’t we limit their access in the same way? Just because they don't want us to? Well I expect lots of men don't want to be excluded from women-only spaces either.

And quite frankly it is not just about safety. Why should girls be expected to change and shower with heterosexual males? Aren't they allowed boundaries?

I certainly wouldn’t speak to my child like that.

Nor me, Jesus.

I think I’d tackle it completely differently OP. What your ds is lacking is perspective and maturity and understanding.

So I’d build on his understanding of the history of oppression in general. Women, ethnic minorities, homosexuals etc.

then I’d tackle what it means to be a woman in 21st century western society.

I’d endlessly talk to him about the experience of women through the centuries - the rare examples of women and cultures that bucked a trend of general oppression . Id research with him how some cultures oppress women today. I would teach him about the patriarchy and religion and the “science” that has been used to justify women’s oppression.

what it is like to experience life as a woman? How do we define “woman”?

Id talk about periods and pregnancy and childbirth and breastfeeding and motherhood and menopause. in detail. The good, the bad and the ugly. If he doesn’t want to hear it then he shouldn’t engage in the debate. It’s relevant.

I’d talk to him about childlessness when you didn’t choose it, hysterectomy, and troublesome hormonal cycles. I’d talk to him about the fear of unwanted pregnancy. And the fear of being groped at work, or raped on a date. The dilemma of dressing in the way you want when it appears to be “asking for it”.

I’d talk to him about ALWAYS thinking twice before you take a walk alone, get onto a bus or a train.

id talk to him about sexual comments when you walk past a building site, unsolicited dick pics and the ogling of young girls. Of slut shaming and fat shaming.

Id talk to him about why wearing skirts and long hair and high heels doesn’t make you a woman. Why lesbians are concerned they may be required to accept women with penises and the problems this presents for our whole community.

and so on.

id listen to him and I’d ask him to listen to me

it is only through education and understanding that we can all learn and grow and find solutions to these really difficult issues.