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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

olympics question

237 replies

StellaGreen · 27/07/2024 07:52

Please help me here, are there any men (trans women) competing in the biological women's events in the Olympics games in Paris?
Some people say there are and others are saying there are none.
Hopefully common sense prevails and fair sport for women is being upheld at this games.

OP posts:
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WarriorN · 27/07/2024 07:53

Ooh don't know. Following

Shortshriftandlethal · 27/07/2024 08:29

I'm kind of anticipating that there might well be.....given the IOC instructions to media outlets not to make any comment on a competitor's sex or gender.

There was one comment during the opening ceremony about a particular competitor not taking part because they had to "reduce their testosterone levels" sufficiently....it was an African country, so I assume this person will be someone with a DSD, like Caster Semenya.

puffyisgood · 27/07/2024 08:57

It's highly likely that there are a couple tucked away somewhere, yes.

But there are a couple of important limiting factors:

(1) Multiple high profile sports (athletics, swimming, cycling, rowing, boxing) have banned it.

(2) Of the 184 countries competing in this year's tournament, it's realistically only around a dozen or so (the big English speaking countries plus a couple more in Western Europe) that are sufficiently captured that they'd consider disgracing themselves by entering a man into a woman's event. This isn't as big a limiting factor as it seems though, since as the variations in team size in the opening ceremony made clear, the overwhelming majority of Olympic medals are for events that aren't really affordable/aren't really accessible on most of the planet. So realistically this small handful of captured countries will, alongside China and so on, be supplying most of the credible entrants in most of the minority sports.

Short summary - there'll be a couple, almost certainly from the USA, Canada, NZ, Australia, or similar, hidden away in archery or shooting or similar.

The DSD issue is different, those guys have been treated very leniently, provided they take 'HRT' male athletes with a sufficiently strong DSD are allowed even in athletics and so on. Christine Mboma was the one who got pointed out by TV during the opening ceremony. I daresay there'll be a few others. Caster Semenya refused to take female hormone treatment, presumably on account of a dislike of their feminising effects.

puffyisgood · 27/07/2024 09:02

oh, as pointed out the other day, Barbra Banda in the women's football is another reasonably high profile DSD athlete who's been allowed into women's sport. when permitted in the women's category BB is one of the strongest players in the world, though limited success wise at international level by having to play for a relatively weak, poorly resourced, national side.

kiterunning · 27/07/2024 09:08

Christine Mboma is male and will be running in the 100m and 200m
After reducing testosterone, DSD athletes with conditions only seen in males are free to compete in women's events.
It will be interesting to see if Michael Johnson who regularly gushes about Mboma will be so pleased if his American favourites are beaten.
Performances haven't been great this year so we'll wait and see.
I suspect Mboma may withdraw if winning looks unlikely.

puffyisgood · 27/07/2024 09:28

kiterunning · 27/07/2024 09:08

Christine Mboma is male and will be running in the 100m and 200m
After reducing testosterone, DSD athletes with conditions only seen in males are free to compete in women's events.
It will be interesting to see if Michael Johnson who regularly gushes about Mboma will be so pleased if his American favourites are beaten.
Performances haven't been great this year so we'll wait and see.
I suspect Mboma may withdraw if winning looks unlikely.

I quickly googled it, there seems to be some suggestion that Mboma didn't qualify for Paris . we'll see, I suppose.

StellaGreen · 27/07/2024 09:41

Thank you everyone!
I am absolutely delighted that it looks this way.
DSD is a separate issue.

Perhaps the tide is turning.

OP posts:
biscuitandcake · 27/07/2024 10:05

There is a "non-binary transperson" who was being touted as the first non-binary person to compete in the Olympics or some-such. This briefly generated a bit of confusion with people tweeting that there was a male non-binary person on the women's team. But, this non-binary person is in fact a biological female who isn't on hormones. So its basically female person with short hair competes as female. Which isn't a scandal, though it also isn't particularly ground breaking IMO but whatever.

cupcaske123 · 27/07/2024 10:09

There are about four or five trans people taking part.

Rubidium · 27/07/2024 10:18

There is a "non-binary transperson" who was being touted as the first non-binary person to compete in the Olympics or some-such.

That was ‘Quinn', wasn’t it? A North American (USA/Canada, can’t remember which) football player who won a gold medal with the women’s team in Tokyo. Non-binary, but as female as my Mum.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 27/07/2024 10:18

biscuitandcake · 27/07/2024 10:05

There is a "non-binary transperson" who was being touted as the first non-binary person to compete in the Olympics or some-such. This briefly generated a bit of confusion with people tweeting that there was a male non-binary person on the women's team. But, this non-binary person is in fact a biological female who isn't on hormones. So its basically female person with short hair competes as female. Which isn't a scandal, though it also isn't particularly ground breaking IMO but whatever.

So about as newsworthy as 'first person who thinks the Matrix sequels are better than the original competes in the Olympics'.

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 27/07/2024 10:20

cupcaske123 · 27/07/2024 10:09

There are about four or five trans people taking part.

But are they competing in their natal sex class?

Hairyesterdaygonetoday · 27/07/2024 10:21

NoBinturongsHereMate · 27/07/2024 10:18

So about as newsworthy as 'first person who thinks the Matrix sequels are better than the original competes in the Olympics'.

Yes!

cupcaske123 · 27/07/2024 10:24

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 27/07/2024 10:20

But are they competing in their natal sex class?

Apparently they're banned from competing in their desired sex. Will have to check.

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 27/07/2024 10:28

I've found mention of 2 both are natal females who are non binary and in women's events so qualify under their natal sex. I can't find any mention of anyone transgender competing in the opposite sex class.

cupcaske123 · 27/07/2024 10:32

cupcaske123 · 27/07/2024 10:24

Apparently they're banned from competing in their desired sex. Will have to check.

Edited

They're not banned, there are restrictions on taking part in some cases and in others it's on a case by case basis.

www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/paris-2024-olympics-transgender-athletes-b2582038.html

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 27/07/2024 10:47

Isn't Barbra Banda an athlete with a dsd rather than trans which is a different issue.

MessinaBloom · 27/07/2024 11:03

NotBadConsidering · 27/07/2024 10:34

Barbra Banda playing football for Zambia

https://www.bbc.com/sport/africa/62057259

Haven't we been through this? Banda is female, with higher testosterone levels. This could be due to congenital disease. Stop.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 27/07/2024 11:08

‘It's highly likely that there are a couple tucked away somewhere, yes.’

😂😂😂 excellent!

SabrinaThwaite · 27/07/2024 11:14

MessinaBloom · 27/07/2024 11:03

Haven't we been through this? Banda is female, with higher testosterone levels. This could be due to congenital disease. Stop.

No. Banda failed sex testing previously. Banda is not female, but a male with a DSD.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/africa/62057259.amp

I think we should stop pretending that there are women with ‘naturally high testosterone.’

Barbra Banda in action for Zambia

Banda out of Wafcon over 'gender eligibility' issues - BBC Sport

Zambia captain Barbra Banda has been ruled out of the Women's Africa Cup of Nations after failing gender eligibility tests.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/africa/62057259.amp

NotBadConsidering · 27/07/2024 11:15

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 27/07/2024 10:47

Isn't Barbra Banda an athlete with a dsd rather than trans which is a different issue.

Sorry, I missed the part in the op about trans in brackets and just saw men. Banda is a male. So same problem regardless.

WarriorN · 27/07/2024 11:17

It could have been so much more classy.

The women statues were great but the artistry was a tad cheap.

Lovely seeing celine and ballon was fab.

The balloon reminded me of odilon redon's ballon eye . No idea if it was supposed to....

olympics question
NotBadConsidering · 27/07/2024 11:17

MessinaBloom · 27/07/2024 11:03

Haven't we been through this? Banda is female, with higher testosterone levels. This could be due to congenital disease. Stop.

Did you read the article? If Banda was female, then during the verification test that would have been established and he wouldn’t have failed the test. You can’t fail a verification test of being female if you’re female. The only way you can fail is if you’re male.

Marmaladelover · 27/07/2024 11:17

A heavyweight weight lifter from New Zealand surname name began with H I recall was on Twitter this morning reposted by WRN

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