olympics question

[StellaGreen]

Please help me here, are there any men (trans women) competing in the biological women's events in the Olympics games in Paris?
Some people say there are and others are saying there are none.
Hopefully common sense prevails and fair sport for women is being upheld at this games.

That article only says that FIFA has not questioned Banda’s sex. Hardly surprising, as FIFA has failed to follow the lead of other sports in protecting the women’s game.

Amanda Kamanga, the president of Zambia’s FA (Faz), told BBC Sport Africa: “All the players had to undergo gender verification, a Caf requirement, and unfortunately she did not meet the criteria set by Caf.”

https://onefootball.com/en/news/africa-cup-of-nations-barbra-banda-banned-due-to-gender-eligibility-issues-35400347

If Banda’s T levels were high enough for it to be recommended that Banda takes medication to reduce it, then that suggests it is nowhere near female levels.

And we all know that any claims that DSD athletes must be female because they have a birth certificate, we know that’s nonsense as Semenya has a birth certificate stating female yet has a DSD that is exclusive to males.

I didn’t ask the question, I rolled my eyes at the ridiculousness of your suggestion, but can you explain how you think someone with those conditions you mentioned would be capable of being well enough to compete uninterrupted? In order for Banda to be female one or more of the following would need to be true:

1. elevated testosterone levels were found and Banda failed female sex verification on this test alone, despite the need for further clarity
2. further testing was done, it was confirmed with chromosomes that Banda is female, but still failed the verification test
3. Banda has a tumour, or PCOS, has 46XX chromosomes but still failed the verification test
4. Banda has a tumour or PCOS or something similar but has been well enough to continue playing at the top level
5. Banda has a tumour or PCOS or something similar but was required to suppress testosterone levels purely to be allowed to play again, not as part of the treatment of any underlying condition, which is contrary to the rules of most policies and hasn’t come out and said “I have XX chromosomes and PCOS this is unfair” and kept the clear injustice of it all quiet

OR

Banda is male, failed the female sex verification test for that reason after full testing, but FIFA can’t deal with the hassle of putting rules in place and have put it in the “too hard” basket (and we know they allow males in women’s football generally) allowing Banda to play in this tournament, hoping to not have to deal with it, like World Athletics did for years with Semenya. For years we were told Semenya had “naturally high female testosterone levels” and everyone then also claimed it could be from something like PCOS, also failing to explain how Semenya could win 800m races so easily with those conditions. Even after it was revealed Semenya has 5 alpha reductase deficiency and is male we still hear the same propaganda, and now we are hearing it about Banda.

What does it matter? Banda is just one player in one team, a not well fancied team at that. It matters because a) a Zambian woman should be there b) it’s unfair to other teams to have to play against any male at all and c) it’s an indication that we have to be massively vigilant because sporting authorities allow this to happen unchecked if no one was paying attention prioritising men over women.

Banda's club Orlando Pride is currently leading the NWSL table. It absolutely matters.

That not what it says. It says she was AFAB but a doctor hus refused to sign off on sex verification, for reasons we don't (and shouldn't) know.
Babies with indeterminate genitalia I think are more often AFAB so I'm guessing her biology isn't straightforward.

Lots of males with 5 alpha reductase deficiency (5ARD) are incorrectly identified as female at birth due to ambiguous genitalia cause by non virulization.
It doesn't make them female.

It's possible they were "AFAB" but not actually genetically female.

5-alpha reductase deficiency: MedlinePlus Genetics

Reduxx are reporting on 2 boxers who are competing in the female category.

reduxx.info/breaking-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes/

Good article. Depressing, of course, but it makes clear the level of dishonesty from sport federations, not just the athletes.

That this is boxing is very alarming. I hope other federations threaten to sue if their women boxers are injured.

I've no idea what boxing's rules are when it comes to DSDs. A quick Google of Ms Khelif's name does indeed yield results that are suggestive of a male DSD.

www.instagram.com/imane_khelif_10?igsh=MTl5em92OHh5dGxzaA==

This is dreadful. It’s not just unfair, it’s dangerous.

But as this explains - we can’t always trust ‘assigned female at birth’ because that could be said of Caster Semenya but it was a mistake, he’s male.

That was Christine Mboma, for Namibia. Biologically male.

Nikki Hiltz. A woman and a non-story.

The world has woken up to this. Bring it on, sunlight is a great disinfectant.

This is me being hopeful that the exposure that the Olympics gives to the insanity of men competing in female events will actually be helpful to putting an end to it.

Who?

Banda: The Guardian said: 'But in a shock for Banda, she did not meet gender DSD (differences in sex development) rules, set by the Confederation of African Football (Caf), before the tournament. Banda was, according to its rules, ineligible because her testosterone levels were said to be above Caf’s permitted limit.'

Banda is a male with a DSD.

No woman EVER has had such high testosterone that she has had to have it reduced!!!

If this was the case, how could they be fit enough to be an Olympian?!

She was on the boat last night, so must have.

That is absolutely shocking. And by the rules of the IOC, this fact should not even get reported? Imagine being a female boxer put in a match against one of them. What an outrageous thing to do.

MessinaBloom

I don't enjoy the deliberate smearing of female athletes like this. You do yourselves no favours.

It's evident that you don't have the first idea of what you're talking about.

Banda is not being smeared, he is a man with a DSD. He has male, XY chromosomes. He has an undeveloped penis and undescended, yet fully functioning testes, which produce testosterone at normal, male levels.

Having an undeveloped penis does not make him female in any way, shape or form. Just because FIFA haven't bothered to take note of biomedical scientists, it doesn't follow that Banda is a woman.

Edited for a typo

Are you sure?

Team Namibia only has 4 athletes. Mboma isn’t on the list.

olympic.org.na/olympic-games/paris-2024

Who can compete is down to each sport's governing body. Most have rules based on not having gone through male puberty plus testosterone below a certain threshold (this is cover rare genuine unusual situations) xx chromosomes isn't sufficient to qualify as a female either.

Oh and some sports have renamed the men's event as the open event so anyone can take part including transmen, the women's events haven't changed the qualification only natal women who have never taken hormones or those who never gone through male puberty and hormones below x

Banda, Mboma and Semanya are important because they are as close physically to a post-pubertal transwomen as you get in nature.

If you accept in female competition someone AFAB who has xy chromosomes, a functioning sry gene, sensitivity to testosterone, and functional testes producing that testosterone, then what's stopping you accepting someone AMAB with all of those things who had their penis removed surgically and now looks superficially feminine? It's the same.

It's a shame for those individuals who have clearly been used by others, but they are also continuing to be used by others as a trojan horse to allow men to compete in women's sport.

@SabrinaThwaite - she was mentioned by the commentator, so I assumed Mboma was there.

Yes. This.

I think other posters have said that the commentators mentioned that Mboma hadn’t qualified? I didn’t see it myself (gave up at Finland).