olympics question

[StellaGreen]

Please help me here, are there any men (trans women) competing in the biological women's events in the Olympics games in Paris?
Some people say there are and others are saying there are none.
Hopefully common sense prevails and fair sport for women is being upheld at this games.

None that are known of, although as a PP has pointed out there might be some in minor sports without a ban such as archery or shooting. There are two trans men competing, in football and middle distance. Both are, unsurprisingly, competing in the women’s categories.

edit: I meant shooting not fencing

I've never heard men described as spiteful, it's a silencing word used at women ime.

Anyway, will stop derailing...

If you’re thinking of Hiltz and Quinn then they’re both female (identifying as NB) and competing in the women’s events.

Not a problem.

Her teams seem happy enough with her status.

We yes, they get the advantage of a male on their female team (the USAs all conquering national women's football team were beaten by high school boys, many high school boys beat the women's Olympics track medal winning times every year). They aren't the ones risking injury being tackled by a male. There are probably team mates who are unhappy changing in front of Banda but they will afraid to speak out because they have seen what happened to Riley Gaines.

Can you explain why you think it's spiteful to stop men competing in women's sport?

Can you explain how a female could exhibit male levels of testosterone?

Congenital diseases, even PCOS, some'

It seems to be worth repeating over and over, because obviously the chart isn’t being read. The point is that the range of any female with naturally high levels of testosterone (for female people) finishes around 5 nmol. This is not a healthy level which is considered to be approximately 2.5 as an upper limit.

Male people with healthy ranges of testosterone start far above 2.5. The two ranges have a significant gap.

The media using this fucked up falsehood of ‘women with naturally high testosterone’ have made the public think that female people can have a medical condition that causes them to have levels of testosterone that they simply don’t have naturally. Because the media and sports authorities are referring to males when the phrase is used for athletes.

Attempting to vilify people discussing these incidents where female athletes health and safety have been clearly put at risk is an emotionally manipulative tactic to stop discussion. These discussions at general public level have applied enough pressure to get some of the major sports to react to start to protect female sport. More discussions need to happen every day so that pressure is maintained on sport federations, governments and ultimately the IOC to protect female sports so no male people are in the female category.

@Datun

Can you explain why you think it's spiteful to stop men competing in women's sport?

That isn't what I said. My meaning, however it is wilfully misinterpreted, is this board is full of spite. My intention wasn't misogyny either by using the word 'spite' - it's an apt description.

I think righteous indignation is a better description.

Maybe you could clarify what you mean by ‘spite’?

Women here are not being deliberately hurtful or offensive by discussing the very real damage being done to women’s sports. Many of us are or have been athletes or have children that are athletes that this directly affects.

MessinaBloom

That isn't what I said. My meaning, however it is wilfully misinterpreted, is this board is full of spite. My intention wasn't misogyny either by using the word 'spite' - it's an apt description.
Semantics.

My meaning, however it is wilfully misinterpreted, is this board is full of spite.
Receipts, please.

My meaning, however it is wilfully misinterpreted, is this board is full of spite.

And it is misogyny because standing up for women and girls isn't "spite".

This thread is about males competing as females.

No one would blame you for thinking that they are actually females with high testosterone levels, because it's been marketed like that.

There is evidence that coaches have sought out boys with this DSD, precisely because their sex can appear ambiguous.

Nonetheless, they are male, and have a DSD that is male specific. With all the attendant advantages from being male.

Basically it's a con.

And a lot of people were conned. Caster Semenya was painted as a masculine looking woman who had to suffer the indignity of routinely showing her genitalia to prove her sex.

When, in fact, Samenya is a man with completely normal testosterone levels. Men with this DSD have fathered children.

As I said, this thread is about addressing that these men are unfairly trying to compete as women.

If you can find anything spiteful in women opposing that, then I'd love to hear it.

Or if you're going to say it's nothing to do with this thread, but other threads, then I for one, would conclude that you're in backtrack mode due to not understanding the situation.

Yes, they are who I was referring to. Both Quinn and Hiltz describe themselves as transgender although Hiltz somewhat confusingly also describes herself as non-binary. Either way they are both clearly female and not taking cross-sex hormones (and would fail dope testing if they were).

Is it tragic that the often exploitative world of sport has in some cases sought out boys/young men with DSDs that were incorrectly recorded as female at birth pushed them into female athletics/sports and then marketed them not as male but falsely claimed that they are females with 'naturally' high testosterone?
Yes it is, but as ever this isn't women's problem to solve and it is unfair to expect women to miss out because some unscrupulous men have sought to exploit a vulnerable group.
It isn't spiteful to call men with DSDs that only occur in males men. Is it exploitative to put them in this situation where their private medical is publicly discussed? Of course it is. But professional sport has quite the track record for exploiting and abusing both boys and girls with big dreams in many ways. From sexual abuse, physical abuse, state sponsored doping to dropping those who don't make the grade or sustain injury without any support or even a second thought.

Strange how someone so sure of their righteousness that they vilify others who are having a discussion about how male inclusion directly and negatively impacts female sports uses emotive terms such spite yet fails to understand that their own actions support misogyny. Because they have this ideological belief that they are the ones fighting misogyny yet it is quite the other way round.

It cannot be stated any clearer. If officials in the recent past with all the very easy and definitive tests available have felt an athlete will not pass a gender verification test, it is almost a guarantee that that person in question is not female but is someone who ‘qualifies’ under the unfair rules falsely labelled as ‘inclusive’ as a special consideration male athlete.

No female athlete, with all the modern medical testing available, would need to have any further conditions or testing. And no further regulations for ‘suppression of testosterone’. No female today ever has to ‘suppress their natural testosterone’ level to play sport.

How fucking spiteful would it be to support any male to compete in a female sports category?

Gosh, what will happen when FIFA finally revises their policy to prevent any male competing as a female, and those male players suddenly all retire but it is never publicly known that they were male all along? It all will just disappear because it is ‘spiteful’ to point out that it was fucking understood but allowed to happen because of unfair policies and censuring voices fed by misinformation.

It is like the East German women athletes who were doped, but the competitors who lost their places will never get their opportunities again. But apparently discussing it is ‘spite’.

How fucking spiteful would it be to support any male to compete in a female sports category?

Indeed.

Well I am watching the Matildas get run all over the shop by Banda. I cannot celebrate what a wonderful talent Banda is as the media is doing. Even the Australian media, because they cannot even mention the controversy that Zambia believed at one stage their star and their captain would fail a ‘gender verification test’ so didn’t include that player at one stage.

FIFA needed to sort their shit out before the Olympics and they have again let women down. This is fucked up and any person attempting to vilify women discussing the lack of transparency here and the lack of respect for women and girl’s football is simply supporting misogyny.

Sorry Helle. The media in lots of countries have boxed themselves into a corner.

Absolutely sick making. A hat trick for Banda but Aus have fought back thank god and won 6-5.
The Guardian is gushing about him..

Yay!!! Matildas!!!

Congrats to the Matildas!

Feeling so bloody 😡

Rachael Kundananji the other Zambian player also failed a sex verification test.

It's so obvious when you look at those two