olympics question

[StellaGreen]

Please help me here, are there any men (trans women) competing in the biological women's events in the Olympics games in Paris?
Some people say there are and others are saying there are none.
Hopefully common sense prevails and fair sport for women is being upheld at this games.

H was on Twitter saying what? Or do you mean Twitter reports they are taking part?

Reporting he was taking part

Google laurel hubbard

@NotBadConsidering

Did you read the article? If Banda was female, then during the verification test that would have been established and he wouldn’t have failed the test. You can’t fail a verification test of being female if you’re female. The only way you can fail is if you’re male.

I read it. If the test was a blood test looking for testosterone levels, then Banda would fail. Being male is not the only way to fail a test like this.

I don't enjoy the deliberate smearing of female athletes like this. You do yourselves no favours.

We need to name and shame these cheats, hopefully if it picks up enough momentum they'll be forced to withdraw.

Can you explain how a female could exhibit male levels of testosterone?

One is Quinn who is a natal female who identifies as non binary. Another is Nikki Hiltz who is another natal female identifying as non binary. They are both competing in the correct sex class ie female so there is no cheating going on.

@SabrinaThwaite

Can you explain how a female could exhibit male levels of testosterone?

Congenital diseases, even PCOS, some tumours.

There are no female athletes being smeared, so you can rest easy.

@puffyisgood
I hope you're right that Mboma hasn't qualified.

If it was only testosterone, and Banda had returned a level of, say, 5 nmol/l, which might indicate a 46XX DSD then there would have been clarification of the chromosomes and condition, confirmation that Banda is female, and Banda would have passed the female sex verification test.

What you’re suggesting is that Banda failed the verification test purely on a slightly high testosterone level without any further checks. This is not what happens. Testosterone levels are the trigger for further testing, that is, chromosomes. Furthermore, if further testing reveals a person to be 46XX, there is no requirement to take testosterone suppressing medication. That Banda was required to do so indicates he is male, because only males with 46XY DSDs are required to take testosterone suppressing medications.

You’ll be telling us Semenya is a woman next I imagine.

I’ll admit it’s not a male who is trans. But the implications are the same in terms of sporting fairness. You’ll also note from the BBC article that three other Zambian players also failed and were excluded, and we don’t know if they’re in Paris because we don’t know who they were. The differing rules in differing competitions explain how it has been allowed.

Yes, because as we all know, having PCOS or a tumour really leaves you healthy enough to play top level football in the US over the last 12 months and score goals in the Olympics football tournament 🙄

The implications are definitely the same for male DSD athletes who are now required to lower testosterone levels.
They and trans women have both gone through male puberty with all the sporting advantages that brings.

Also, those things wouldn't result in a female person failing a sex verification test.

Edited for clarity.

Oh yes, of course.

@NotBadConsidering

Yes, because as we all know, having PCOS or a tumour really leaves you healthy enough to play top level football in the US over the last 12 months and score goals in the Olympics football tournament 🙄

You asked the question. I answered it. I didn't discuss whether said person would be a fit Olympic athlete.

Paris is VERY proud of their 50/50 male/female athletes, a first in the history of... Blah blah. If there's even ONE transwomen being counted as a woman, that throws that record out the window. Will need to correct that every time they claim it in the future

Your answer was incorrect. Congenital disease or PCOS do not cause females to exhibit male levels of endogenous testosterone. 5nmol/l is high for a woman but it is not "male levels". BB is male.

There are things that can raise female people's testosterone yes. But do they raise it to male levels?

Genuine question, I really do not know. I thought there was still a significant gap between the highest female levels and average male levels but happy to be corrected.

Ah cross posted with @Snowypeaks saying exactly what I was wondering.

Sabrina posted a helpful graph upthread.

ETA - so much cross posting!

Mboma didn’t qualify.

neweralive.na/we-tried-every-trick-to-no-avail-botha-mboma-shifts-focus-to-rebuilding-for-future/

@Snowypeaks

Your answer was incorrect. Congenital disease or PCOS do not cause females to exhibit male levels of endogenous testosterone. 5nmol/l is high for a woman but it is not "male levels". BB is male.

Perhaps read this - all the way through. Banda is female - the issue is her hormone level. Isn't this board about defending women?

apnews.com/article/zambia-banda-womens-world-cup-79520a0f06bf1c91a18fbeacfdd2fbec

Banda is male, only males can have the DSD Banda has

banda had been through male puberty with all the physical benefits that brings

The only way you can have testosterone at anything approaching male levels is if you are a female doping with T, or if you are a man.

What they are glossing over in that article is that a doctor refused to sign off on BB's sex and that Banda and some other players were withdrawn from sex testing. You might ask why the federation would do that.

Genital inspections are intrusive and unnecessary. And they're not always accurate, either. Barr bodies tests require a cheek swab and are accurate and reliable. The supposed flaws in regulations using Barr bodies tests is that the test picks up males with DSDs even if they have a female phenotype. Some people seem to think that if an athlete could pass as female socially they should be in the female category, but that is not how it works. (Or shouldn't be.) We're not just picking on males with DSDs to be mean, it's about protecting the female category in sport so that only women and girls compete in it and male athletic performance advantage is excluded. Males with DSDs which affect the outward appearance of their genitals, or who have an outwardly female phenotype are still male and therefore should not be in female competition.

So if you want to defend women, add your voice to those calling for males with DSDs to be excluded on a blanket basis - every single one of them is a man.