olympics question

[StellaGreen]

Please help me here, are there any men (trans women) competing in the biological women's events in the Olympics games in Paris?
Some people say there are and others are saying there are none.
Hopefully common sense prevails and fair sport for women is being upheld at this games.

How can you know what genitalia this person possesses? Were you present at the birth? Could Banda possibly be a female with a DSD?

Babies born with congenital adrenal hyperplasia have high testosterone levels. Additionally, they can present with abnormalities of genitalia. This is the congenital disease I was indicating before. I don't know that this would necessarily be a bar to a sufferer becoming an athlete.

Anyway, if you have a source better than mine, please post it.

mitogoshi · Yesterday 21:42

xx chromosomes isn't sufficient to qualify as a female either.

It's the sole qualification for being female.

MessinaBloom · Today 01:52

It's well known that he has 5-ARD and he has natural testosterone levels far and away in excess of what any female is capable of producing. Just like Caster Semanya.

If Banda was a female with 46XX and CAH then Banda would have passed the female sex verification test and not be required to suppress testosterone to compete. I have said this several times.

How did Banda fail the test if your theory is correct?

If that's so, and it's well known, you should be able to post a source?

How about this from the BBC @MessinaBloom:

"It was in the Cas ruling that Semenya's specific DSD was confirmed as 46 XY 5-ARD (5-alpha-reductase deficiency). People with this particular DSD have the male XY chromosomes. Some are assigned female or male at birth depending on their external genitalia.

"Semenya told BBC Sport that she was "born without a uterus" and born "with internal testicles" and said: "I am a woman and have a vagina".

"Cas said athletes like Semenya with 5-ARD have "circulating testosterone at the level of the male 46 XY population and not at the level of the female 46 XX population", which gives them "a significant sporting advantage over 46 XX female athletes".

Thank you @TheKneesOfTheBees - but we're discussing Barbra Banda in particular?

How did Banda fail the female sex verification test if Banda has something like CAH and is 46XX?

Sorry, I just saw Caster Semenya and obviously didn't read it properly. So used to people also saying the same about Caster despite all evidence!

MessinaBloom · Today 05:34

If that's so, and it's well known, you should be able to post a source?

Fuck me, have you got cramp in your Google finger?

https://www.mundodeportivo.com/us/en/20230710/655420/barbra-banda-to-participate-in-women-s-world-cup-despite-previous-gender-test-result.html

Barbra Banda's inclusion in the Women's World Cup, despite a previous failed gender test, underscores FIFA's acknowledgment of internal investigations conducted by participating teams

This decision comes despite her previous failed gender test, which had led to her exclusion from the 2022 Africa Cup of Nations.

They mean sex, not gender. Just look at him.

@NotBadConsidering

How did Banda fail the female sex verification test if Banda has something like CAH and is 46XX?

I already said I don't know that. If you do, post your source.

I wonder if FIFA will be forced to issue that 'reviewed' policy any time soon because 2 years ago it announced it was going to review the policy and so far nothing. There also has been nothing said by any organisation about the consultation that I can find.

It was going to happen:

TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes” www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/5129412-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes

This is the case.

I have been looking for the 'testosterone levels' that keep being mentioned as being in the CAF regulations, but cannot see anything. There are news articles saying that Banda says they would not suppress their testosterone levels, yet no statements have ever been made that I can find.

However, no female athlete has to 'suppress' their testosterone. Because female athletes do not have 'naturally high levels of testosterone' to suppress. Female athletes, who are not male people with DSDs, just need to be assessed as being female using modern medical technology and that is it, they never have to be involved with a discussion on testosterone suppression.

@SinnerBoy

Fuck me, have you got cramp in your Google finger?

There's no need for rudeness. I asked for a source yesterday. I've seen nothing of substance back - even yours doesn't really say much I haven't seen already. She failed one gender test, but the article doesn't say what the test was, or the reason for failure. Her teams seem happy enough with her status.

You also attacked her appearance. She's an athlete. She's also African. You're treading on very shaky ground there.

'You also attacked her appearance. She's an athlete. She's also African. You're treading on very shaky ground there.'

Sinnerboy did not 'attack' anything. They pointed out that Banda, a male sexed person, looks like a male sexed person. You, on the other hand, appear to be implying that this very obvious male sexed person passes for an African woman.

A team who benefits from having a male player that currently can play under regulations but will not be allowed under future regulations, will generally be happy with having that male on the team if it lifts their performance.

I would not judge a team’s ‘happiness’ to have an advantage as being any confirmation that an athlete is ‘female’ under the current sporting organisation’s policies. All that means is that the policy is allowing some male athletes in to compete as women at this time. That is the only certainty you can take from Banda’s continued presence on that team.

I have already explained that the facts in all the links provided to you indicate that Banda can’t have the condition you theorise because if Banda did, he wouldn’t have failed. I have provided links. You don’t want to listen. It’s pointless.

Anyway, three males in women’s sport at the Olympics and counting.

All right. I hate this spite.

Spite?

Women's rights are spiteful.

Is that in the rules of misogyny?

MessinaBloom

Is it because you think Semenya and Banda don't realise they are male?

Because Semenya absolutely does. And it's my understanding that this particular DSD would make it perfectly obvious at puberty that they are male.

No spite. Just posters pointing out that what is happening is unfair to women. XX women. Who deserve better. Who deserve not to have their sporting dreams sacrificed on the altar of male entitlement.

What is odd is that you are so determined to place Banda in the downtrodden, hard-done-by category.

And even if Banda were downtrodden, that doesn't make what is happening to women's sport right or fair.

It's been said that Banda could be a woman with a DSD. No they couldn't because there aren't any DSDs affecting women that result in their particular biology.

This isn't spite, it's fact. Wanting something to be true doesn't mean that it is.

I had a quick look for times run by Mboma since returning to the sport. It seems that her initial time in her best event on coming back was 24.11s in the 200m, I could see why Namibia might think that someone with that kind of form wasn't worth taking to Paris given that a medallist will need to run under 22s.

I suppose maybe the new testosterone levels are too strict for a male athlete to comply with. 2.5 nmol/L is within the range for females, albeit not healthy females, per the chart posted upthread (page 2).

Hubbard was allowed to compete with 10 nmol/L (i.e. easily within the male range, albeit towards the lower end), Semenya with 5 nmol/L (i.e. in a no-man's land, at a level which would be very rare for either a man or woman to attain). it probably is very difficult for someone with healthy, functioning testes, like Mboma, to get down as low as 2.5 nmol/L and retain the full suite of male sporting advantages.