Trans athletes take Gold, Silver and Bronze in women's cycling race

[HootyMcBooby]

Hulking transgender athletes take gold, silver and bronze spots on female podium at Virginia cycling championship | Daily Mail Online

"The sailing fan from British Columbia has worked as a Mechanical Engineering Technologist and was ranked 22nd in the men's Victoria Cycling League this time in 2023.
Second place went to Jenna Lingwood, 43, who raced as a man until 2017 and is now a member of the Oregon-based women's cyclocross squad Team S&M.
She is a physics graduate of the University of Washington who works in Portland for Intel as a Supply Chain R&D Engineer.

Californian Eva Lin, 28, used to race as Henry Lin for San Jose State University's men's team, but his placings have soared since he switched to its women's team in 2022"

Dirty rotten CHEATS
That is all.

Oh hang on, it never happens though.
I must be dreaming.

What is it about cycling that would be different, do you think?

I don't particularly care about the GRA. I just don't think that repealing it will have any effect in sports (it may do in other areas of course, but we are talking about sport here). What will make a difference is athletes, sponsors and funding bodies exerting pressure on governing bodies.

If there are that many trans women in this competition, couldn't they have a separate competition just for trans women? That would solve the problem immediately.

Actual hell ferret 😱

Ooh! You can get CBeebies in hell....doesn't surprise me. Part of the punishment.

Not just that. Flushes of testosterone and other androgens affect anything with the right receptors - so muscles as well.

yes.

It has been said that it is still untested and therefore there is a lack of confidence in the UK to use these exceptions by some people reporting their sports organisations are still working through new policies.

It is certainly an issue in Australia according to Kieran Perkins, of Sports Australia, although this has yet to be tested.

I reckon it would. Happy to give it a try to find out..

I see reports of unfairness and detriment to women and girls and I’m ready to get rid of the whole edifice

Consider women and girls not men for a change

Remember the swimming competition that had an open category and no-one entered?

It's not about competing, it's about finding the easiest way to win and/or validation and/or misogyny, beating women specifically.

Anyway, this is the US, where TWAW, no debate.

It wouldn't solve the problem because the men in women's sport are there because it's labelled women's sport and they get validation from being there and in the changing rooms. And it's easier to win prizes.

Is what you are saying is that the girls are winning despite the physical advantages the boys have? So if the boys behaved as the girls behave, those boys would be winning because they have the raw power and the other advantages listed in the studies, they just lack the discipline?

Is this at National level, or just grass roots?

@Helleofabore sorry, I don't mean to be rude but which part of my post was unclear? As I say: we typically see girls racing as fast as boys up to U12 because even if they don't have the raw power (although some do), they generally make better tactical decision, exhibit better teamwork, and generally show more mature racecraft from an earlier age. Mostly because they actually bloody listen to their coach :)

A VO2max test on a treadmill is not a great predictor of racecraft, which, particularly at youth level, is a huge component of ability to get results.

Can be similar in swimming - sometimes the girls qualifying times can be slightly faster than the boys at around 11 / 12 yrs.

I thought my question was also pretty clear in clarifying what you have said. Because, I didn't find your statement to be clear and sought clarification. If you don't wish to clarify it, don't.

And I will assume then that those children still should be separated by sex because the male children have an advantage. You have assumed that it is for a particular reason, from your experiences, but it may or may not be actually relevant.

If the girls wish to race in an open race, that is fine. However, do you think that their own events still be protected from the start?

You said:
, I've seen those kind of studies before. None of them have been done on cycling AFAIK
So I asked why the studies about physical advantages of boys over girls would not apply to cycling?

Boys are stronger and faster. That's the issue here - that's why it's unfair to allow a even a man/boy who has not gone through puberty to race in women's or girls' competition. The girls may be easier to coach or be tactically aware, but boys are also capable of listening to their coach and learning racecraft, aren't they?

Yes, I've seen that too. They sit in disbelief at some of the leg extensions or whatever (disclaimer: I have no idea of any technical gymnastics terms) and just get more and more vocally 'WTF??'

I didn’t realise it had been made private, though.

"Is what you are saying is that the girls are winning despite the physical advantages the boys have?"

I'm saying that the overall performance of girls and boys at this level is the same, but my observation is that girls and boys have different strengths and weaknesses. Boys (not all boys) often have better max power and strength endurance. Girls (not all girls) often have better CV endurance and racecraft. Boys gain an advantage once they hit puberty. They also catch up in terms of racecraft (although I still have a couple of 12yo boys who seem incapable of changing bloody gear...)

Grassroots, there is no national level competition for cycling until U14.

Thank you.

Do you think that girls should have their own events? And I say this knowing that resources may not be available.

Yes, girls should have their own events wherever possible - and they do from U14 onwards. For U12 and below the girls and boys often race together but always get separate results and separate podium ceremonies. It's effectively two different races that are on the course at the same time - just like many running races. We often combine age groups too, so U6/U8 and U10/U12. They still get their own results, podiums and medals.

Thanks.

It is interesting. Because as I mentioned up thread, are the girls deterred from racing with the boys even if they are awarded by sex? That would be an interesting thing to study. It certainly may not be a common feeling. Do you know if anyone has done even a questionnaire on this?

I usually just put her on the naughty step for ten minutes, but I'm willing to give your version a go!

this needs to be on the main board not stuck over here.

But the poor men wouldn’t have an obvious advantage any more and would therefore have less opportunity to win.

There are several sports, like cycling, that involve unrelenting focus and self-discipline (the sheer volume of hours that has to be put in at endurance levels). Yes, boys do have it yet girls greater emotional maturity at a younger age extends parity and/or competitiveness at U12 and U14 in some sports until the Big T pretty much turbocharges progression.

@Helleofabore I honestly don't know and I don't know if there has ever been a study on it. I could ask the girls I coach whether they would be happier being coached in girls-only sessions but at the end of the day we don't have enough volunteers to provide single-sex coaching sessions. And of course it's not really possible to capture the opinions of children who are deterred from ever coming to a taster session in the first place.

At the adult level in our club we do run women-only and mixed social rides for our non-racing riders (in most cycling clubs, the majority of members are either non-racing or only enter time trials rather than races). Our women's race team trains both in women-only groups and with the men. Training with the men is essentially motorpacing and a very useful training technique - as well as being insanely fun. It does really highlight the difference in power though - they'll be having a chat while you are just hanging on to the wheel as if your life depends on it.

Ok. Thank you. That is interesting.