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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

FFS disability is now on the pride flag

517 replies

sashh · 16/07/2024 08:58

I'm livid. I'm disabled and I do not want to be represented on the LGBTQ+ flag.

Also this quote: Dayna Halliwell (she/her), Content and Engagement Manager at Evenbreak, led the collaboration and organised the Pride visit. She said: “It was very moving and amazing to see the reaction of disabled people in the audience. You could see the joy on their faces of being represented in the parade.”

https://blog.evenbreak.co.uk/2024/07/02/new-disability-inclusive-pride-flag-unveiled-at-london-pride/

New Disability-Inclusive Pride Flag unveiled at London Pride

Image description: Evenbreak team members in pink t-shirts carry the new Disability-Inclusive Pride Flag in the London Pride Parade alongside Valentino Vechietti, dressed in white. Photo credit: Ma…

https://blog.evenbreak.co.uk/2024/07/02/new-disability-inclusive-pride-flag-unveiled-at-london-pride

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
BeachParty · 16/07/2024 11:48

CocoapuffPuff · 16/07/2024 09:52

Oh dear.

Sarcasm just flies over your head, doesn't it, sweetie?

Go lie down before you hurt yourself.

So . you didn't really want to be included anyway, but just pretended that you did so you could have a whinge that you weren't included along with everyone else on the thread.
PP is right, this thread totally does smack of "Wot about International Men's Day?!"

ThatAgileGoldMoose · 16/07/2024 11:50

CrunchyCarrot · 16/07/2024 11:35

How very dare you suggest anything other than Rainbow Carrots? If they aren't diverse, what is?

Signed, Grumpy Carrot.

I think you'll find that's your unconscious cocoapuffphobia talking.

Thelnebriati · 16/07/2024 11:51

July is disability Pride month. I'm not proud of being disabled, it is what it is. I don't like the flag.

But can we not just have one fucking thing that's about us?

CocoapuffPuff · 16/07/2024 11:52

BeachParty · 16/07/2024 11:48

So . you didn't really want to be included anyway, but just pretended that you did so you could have a whinge that you weren't included along with everyone else on the thread.
PP is right, this thread totally does smack of "Wot about International Men's Day?!"

Goodness, another one.

Do you wear a helmet for walking, luv,? You ought to consider it.

CervixSampler · 16/07/2024 11:54

I'm sat here waiting for bread to bake and wondering what identity/identities I have. I'm coming up blank. I'm just me and couldn't possibly design a flag to sum it up.

Sloejelly · 16/07/2024 11:55

PP is right, this thread totally does smack of "Wot about International Men's Day?!"

You are comparing men with their universal privilege and power, to disabled people?

BeachParty · 16/07/2024 11:56

CocoapuffPuff · 16/07/2024 11:52

Goodness, another one.

Do you wear a helmet for walking, luv,? You ought to consider it.

Rational response 🙄😂
👍

BeachParty · 16/07/2024 11:57

Sloejelly · 16/07/2024 11:55

PP is right, this thread totally does smack of "Wot about International Men's Day?!"

You are comparing men with their universal privilege and power, to disabled people?

Erm...no. 🙄

MrsToddsShortcut · 16/07/2024 11:58

This wouldn't be so offensive if in society generally, the Disabled community weren't one of the most overlooked, underfunded and discriminated against.

One of the reasons so much EDI focuses on TQIA+ is because it costs pennies to stick up a progress flag decal or change a company header on social media. Whereas including disabled people actually costs significant amounts of money because it usually involves making changes to building design. I took my son to see a special school recently. My mum couldn't get in the building as they had absolutely no wheelchair access (old Victorian building) but there were posters everywhere for the LGBTQIA+ society. One costs pennies and the other involves money on structural changes.

Who were the main group the Tories targeted in their 'back to work' drive before the election? Yep, PIP and ESA claimants. Who are negatively affected by Pride Crossings? Anyone who relies on a guide dog or assistance dog.

Who are affected by public toilets not having hoists or proper adult changing stations? Or by the repurposing of disabled toilets? Anyone with a physical or hidden disability.

Who are still discriminated against in employment by employers who don't want to spend money on reasonable adjustments? Why are schools exempt from making reasonable adjustments for disabled pupils if the LEA is able to argue it can't affordable to make them?

But it's okay. We're included on a flag that was supposed to already represent us. And everyone knows that the most important thing about inclusion is being seen to make the right noises, not actually including the disabled.

Although that said, having a nice disabled heart on the progress flag is a sure fire way to bat away criticism of all the autistic kids caught up in the TQIA+ and all the kids on puberty blockers who are now living with crippling osteoporosis and shuffling along the pride marches with walking sticks or in wheelchairs.

housethatbuiltme · 16/07/2024 12:02

I don't understand the concept of 'pride' especially over things that aren't choices. I mean live and let live if anyone wants a party they can but I don't really get it.

I'm not ashamed of my gender, race, nationality, disabilities or anything else I am but I also see no need to be proud of them. They aren't achievements they are just my life.

Pride is for things you achieve, you can be proud of say getting a degree or being recognized in a hobby or achieving a goal but something thats not a choice or in your control is not really a pride thing.

Its like how nationalist make me cringe thinking they are better than others just because they where born somewhere there parent just happened to be. My disability is not something I had any say in or control over, I'm not ashamed or sorry to be disabled but I'm not 'proud' that my brain/body doesn't work as it should (that would be weird).

Theunamedcat · 16/07/2024 12:02

Being disabled is not something you can identify as

Quietnights · 16/07/2024 12:05

MrsToddsShortcut · 16/07/2024 11:58

This wouldn't be so offensive if in society generally, the Disabled community weren't one of the most overlooked, underfunded and discriminated against.

One of the reasons so much EDI focuses on TQIA+ is because it costs pennies to stick up a progress flag decal or change a company header on social media. Whereas including disabled people actually costs significant amounts of money because it usually involves making changes to building design. I took my son to see a special school recently. My mum couldn't get in the building as they had absolutely no wheelchair access (old Victorian building) but there were posters everywhere for the LGBTQIA+ society. One costs pennies and the other involves money on structural changes.

Who were the main group the Tories targeted in their 'back to work' drive before the election? Yep, PIP and ESA claimants. Who are negatively affected by Pride Crossings? Anyone who relies on a guide dog or assistance dog.

Who are affected by public toilets not having hoists or proper adult changing stations? Or by the repurposing of disabled toilets? Anyone with a physical or hidden disability.

Who are still discriminated against in employment by employers who don't want to spend money on reasonable adjustments? Why are schools exempt from making reasonable adjustments for disabled pupils if the LEA is able to argue it can't affordable to make them?

But it's okay. We're included on a flag that was supposed to already represent us. And everyone knows that the most important thing about inclusion is being seen to make the right noises, not actually including the disabled.

Although that said, having a nice disabled heart on the progress flag is a sure fire way to bat away criticism of all the autistic kids caught up in the TQIA+ and all the kids on puberty blockers who are now living with crippling osteoporosis and shuffling along the pride marches with walking sticks or in wheelchairs.

All of this.

And don't forget the disabled people who, according to the creators of the Pride flag, are no longer entitled to same sex carers for intimate care, not even if they are severely disabled and non-verbal. Safeguarding is put aside in favour of gender identity. And if you complain about that, you get called names. Welcome to the brave new world of Progress Pride 'diversity.'.

StealthSpinach · 16/07/2024 12:07

I was extremely offended to be asked if I “identified as disabled” on a government form recently. I don’t fucking identify as disabled - because if I “identified” as disabled, I’d be able to identify out of it.

I would be able to change the fact I am in pain every second of my life.
I would be able to change the fact I am below the poverty line as I can’t work due to my disability.
I would be able to change the fact that I have not been able to achieve any of the dreams I once held.
I would be able to change the fact that no one gives a shit, and no one helps (financially, medically, physically or emotionally).

Fuck off with the appropriating, and the forced teaming.

NO.
The very idea is as offensive as it is ridiculous.

TRAs are constantly denying that trans people have any medical/mental conditions - so “trans” is either a disorder or medical condition that results in disability or it is something entirely different and should not be appropriated to try to harness any sympathy or concessions that disabled people have fought so hard for.

ThatAgileGoldMoose · 16/07/2024 12:07

housethatbuiltme · 16/07/2024 12:02

I don't understand the concept of 'pride' especially over things that aren't choices. I mean live and let live if anyone wants a party they can but I don't really get it.

I'm not ashamed of my gender, race, nationality, disabilities or anything else I am but I also see no need to be proud of them. They aren't achievements they are just my life.

Pride is for things you achieve, you can be proud of say getting a degree or being recognized in a hobby or achieving a goal but something thats not a choice or in your control is not really a pride thing.

Its like how nationalist make me cringe thinking they are better than others just because they where born somewhere there parent just happened to be. My disability is not something I had any say in or control over, I'm not ashamed or sorry to be disabled but I'm not 'proud' that my brain/body doesn't work as it should (that would be weird).

LGB pride means not trying to hide who you are attracted to for fear of violence, ridicule, discrimination, stigmatise etc. It's broadly accepted that we don't choose to identify as L,G or B, it is innate.

(I do agree with the majority of your post. I certainly don't see much reason to be proud of my disabilities.)

Quietnights · 16/07/2024 12:08

StealthSpinach · 16/07/2024 12:07

I was extremely offended to be asked if I “identified as disabled” on a government form recently. I don’t fucking identify as disabled - because if I “identified” as disabled, I’d be able to identify out of it.

I would be able to change the fact I am in pain every second of my life.
I would be able to change the fact I am below the poverty line as I can’t work due to my disability.
I would be able to change the fact that I have not been able to achieve any of the dreams I once held.
I would be able to change the fact that no one gives a shit, and no one helps (financially, medically, physically or emotionally).

Fuck off with the appropriating, and the forced teaming.

NO.
The very idea is as offensive as it is ridiculous.

TRAs are constantly denying that trans people have any medical/mental conditions - so “trans” is either a disorder or medical condition that results in disability or it is something entirely different and should not be appropriated to try to harness any sympathy or concessions that disabled people have fought so hard for.

Don't worry. If you want any government money for being disabled, you won't be able to self-identify then.

Runki · 16/07/2024 12:08

I want to be included in the flag for having quite long arms and freckles. Can I be on the flag?

On a serious note, what a condescending, patronising and arrogant comment from that person in the article. Also, I am hearing impaired and don't want to be on the flag, thank you. I don't identify in any way with trans people. I have no feelings about them one way or another but I don't want to be grouped together with them, much as I wouldn't want to be included in a flag, should one exist, for any other group I wasn't part of....for instance, the Berwick-upon-Tweed Bell ringers Society, or the Union of Retired Watchmakers.

Quietnights · 16/07/2024 12:10

housethatbuiltme · 16/07/2024 12:02

I don't understand the concept of 'pride' especially over things that aren't choices. I mean live and let live if anyone wants a party they can but I don't really get it.

I'm not ashamed of my gender, race, nationality, disabilities or anything else I am but I also see no need to be proud of them. They aren't achievements they are just my life.

Pride is for things you achieve, you can be proud of say getting a degree or being recognized in a hobby or achieving a goal but something thats not a choice or in your control is not really a pride thing.

Its like how nationalist make me cringe thinking they are better than others just because they where born somewhere there parent just happened to be. My disability is not something I had any say in or control over, I'm not ashamed or sorry to be disabled but I'm not 'proud' that my brain/body doesn't work as it should (that would be weird).

Pride was about same sex attracted people. It was called Pride to counter the shame that society told gay men and lesbians they should feel.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 16/07/2024 12:10

I believe it's also called the "Progress Flag", as in a work in progress and also to mark advancement in minority rights. Trouble is, while minority rights are obviously important, at this rate they'll run out of space on the thing

Never mind though; it doubtless makes for plenty of nice committee/focus group meetings, which may totally ignore the wishes of the disabled who prefer not to be associated with it. I'm only waiting for such folk to be labeled "bigots" ...

housethatbuiltme · 16/07/2024 12:16

MrsToddsShortcut · 16/07/2024 11:58

This wouldn't be so offensive if in society generally, the Disabled community weren't one of the most overlooked, underfunded and discriminated against.

One of the reasons so much EDI focuses on TQIA+ is because it costs pennies to stick up a progress flag decal or change a company header on social media. Whereas including disabled people actually costs significant amounts of money because it usually involves making changes to building design. I took my son to see a special school recently. My mum couldn't get in the building as they had absolutely no wheelchair access (old Victorian building) but there were posters everywhere for the LGBTQIA+ society. One costs pennies and the other involves money on structural changes.

Who were the main group the Tories targeted in their 'back to work' drive before the election? Yep, PIP and ESA claimants. Who are negatively affected by Pride Crossings? Anyone who relies on a guide dog or assistance dog.

Who are affected by public toilets not having hoists or proper adult changing stations? Or by the repurposing of disabled toilets? Anyone with a physical or hidden disability.

Who are still discriminated against in employment by employers who don't want to spend money on reasonable adjustments? Why are schools exempt from making reasonable adjustments for disabled pupils if the LEA is able to argue it can't affordable to make them?

But it's okay. We're included on a flag that was supposed to already represent us. And everyone knows that the most important thing about inclusion is being seen to make the right noises, not actually including the disabled.

Although that said, having a nice disabled heart on the progress flag is a sure fire way to bat away criticism of all the autistic kids caught up in the TQIA+ and all the kids on puberty blockers who are now living with crippling osteoporosis and shuffling along the pride marches with walking sticks or in wheelchairs.

I think a lot of it is accidental ignorance.

Its not until people have to live as or personally cater for a disabled person that they realize just how inaccessible the world is especially for wheelchairs.

I have an invisible disability and can walk, I don't think there is much I can't access but my mam who was in a full wheelchair it was a nightmare going anywhere. We live in the north and everything is historic cities full of listed buildings exempt from changes.

Trying to plan my wedding we looked at one venue and realized there was no disabled access to which the planner just responded 'oh its fine the staff can just carry them up their stairs'.

First of all no, you could easily kill them as they have an unstable neck dislocation and break, you can't just go throwing disabled people over your shoulder fireman life style. Second, It would be extremely painful for them to be lifted and moved. Third, who wants the indignity of being man handled by complete strangers. Fourth and a major legal one what if there is a fire and need to evacuate in a hurry. Fifth how would we get the wheelchair up, I think they seriously underestimate the size, awkward cumbersome shame and the fact it weighs over 12st. And so on...

None of this stuff had even crossed their mind.

justasking111 · 16/07/2024 12:18

It's all to leech money from other charities that are better placed to do something for individual disabilities.

They're after our direct debits!!!

MrsToddsShortcut · 16/07/2024 12:24

Housethatbuiltme

Thing is though, it's a legal requirement. Surely they're in breach of EA2010 by having no disabled access? Even if they can't afford the renovations, they shouldn't be running a venue if they don't even have a decent understanding of their obligations.

Suzieandthemonkeyfeet · 16/07/2024 12:33

justasking111 · 16/07/2024 12:18

It's all to leech money from other charities that are better placed to do something for individual disabilities.

They're after our direct debits!!!

Edited

100%

justasking111 · 16/07/2024 12:36

MrsToddsShortcut · 16/07/2024 12:24

Housethatbuiltme

Thing is though, it's a legal requirement. Surely they're in breach of EA2010 by having no disabled access? Even if they can't afford the renovations, they shouldn't be running a venue if they don't even have a decent understanding of their obligations.

There's lots of premises, restaurants, offices on the first floor and above with no chance to put in a lift. I accept that they're not able to cater for me

CocoapuffPuff · 16/07/2024 12:41

Am I right in thinking regulations re disabled access apply mostly to new buildings? Some older buildings can be adapted but I'd guess most can't, either because of listed status, planning regs or just simple "there's no place to put an elevator". New builds would have to build it in.

Sloejelly · 16/07/2024 12:52

MrsToddsShortcut · 16/07/2024 12:24

Housethatbuiltme

Thing is though, it's a legal requirement. Surely they're in breach of EA2010 by having no disabled access? Even if they can't afford the renovations, they shouldn't be running a venue if they don't even have a decent understanding of their obligations.

The EA requires ‘reasonable adjustments’ - some buildings, especially listed ones, cannot be made wheelchair friendly without huge expense or changes to the listed aspect of the building. Schools don’t even have to do that.