Simple request for 'gender critical' activists

[NoShortKing]

I'm registered after an awful incident a few days ago, but I'm glad that it forced me to wait before posting as it's enabled me to be more circumspect about things. I'm trans (booo!) and started transitioning 17 years ago. I'm just a guy in the world, few know I'm trans, nobody cares, as it should be.

The other day I had a health appointment, unrelated to being trans or anything that could be relevant, yet the worker obviously had looked into my medical history, misgendered me (I'm a bald bloke with a beard ffs), asked me clearly inappropriate questions which was obviously from 'gender critical' rhetoric. I ended up leaving and now I have all the palaver of having to go through the practice manager to make a complaint.

Here's a really simple solution, if you're a 'gender critical' activist then realise that it's clearly inappropriate for you to work with trans people and ask for someone else to see them. If I had a problem with the existence of, I don't know, black people, tall people, I don't know, people with tattoos or something, then I would just ask someone else to see them. If in my job I was asked to see someone who was openly 'gender critical' I would just tell my lead that I would not be the best person to see them and she would have no problem with that.

I've talked with loads of people about this and nobody thinks this is unreasonable..and certainly in terms of the NHS something that is completely doable with a group that makes up 0.5% of the population.

Obviously, given that I'm in the hornet's nest, I won't be responding, just will leave that request to think about this if you're in a public facing job.

Oooh are the screen shots on Twitter or Reddit yet?

I don't think there are too many medical issues where your sex is completely irrelevant. Your sex affects your entire body, not just your reproductive organs, so all diseases and medicines etc will affect people differently depending on sex. For your own safety and well-being, you should really try not to lose sight of the fact that you are female. It's not offensive.

If the healthcare professional was rude and intrusive, I'm sorry to hear that and encourage you to make a complaint. But it depends on what they actually said, doesn't it?

your sex is often relevent in ways totally unexpectedly when you go for an appointment.

Probably rude if the recptionist was making a huge, loud and obvious deal of "but miss!!! when did you have your last period" apart from that? meh. Sex matters.

1. You've just registered on mumsnet with a particular axe to grind
2. You have used negative language from the start gender critical 'activist' , gender critical 'rhetoric' and made assumptions about our thoughts - trans (booo!) ????
3. You went to a medical professional who is required to consider all diagnoses and treats you as per your sex, which remains whatever you were born as, no matter your own ideology.
4. You've now come on here to lecture us on how if we're health care professionals should behave towards you. (Expecting to be treated in a way that may not be in your health's best interests)
5. You've talked to 'loads of people' - I would bet that those people were a carefully curated group of people who only agree with you (or at least appear to, I doubt you would be truly interested in open discussion')

You seem to be very closed minded and think that you have the right to dictate how other people see you - you don't.

Oh and while I'm at it - no one cares what you look like.

Your appearance is irrelevant.

The important thing in health care is the reality of your sexed body.

And also, what's the point of registering and creating a brand new thread that you have declared you won't even bother to respond to?
As if you're not sitting there, gathering the responses for your Twitter pity party.

Drive-by finger wagging.

Cannot engage with the responses because you know you can't.

Maybe your health care professional was rude. Or maybe they used non-fantasy truths to actually do their job. You know, the "caring for your health" bit. Where biology and bodies matter more than feelings. If you cant handle that, may I suggest some counselling, because if you're interested in looking after your health, then you are going to have to learn to cope with health care professionals looking at your entire physical being, not just the fairy dust in your head.

Obviously, given that I'm in the hornet's nest, I won't be responding

Well that's a bit pointless then. Given that we don't know what was said, and whether it might have been justified or not in a medical context, we can't really help.

Simple request for screenshot farmers: don't.

The health worker's gender critical beliefs are WORIADS - so you should damn well shut up and respect them.

Is deliberate plopping ‘in the spirit’?

Maybe you only had an ear infection or something so superficial that your medical history genuinely had no relevance. If that is the case then the professional might have been unprofessional.

However, I’ve seen a similar rant in the past where someone who had medically transitioned was critical of a doctor asking for history when they had broken their arm. Some of the medical history of transitioning is then highly relevant. Puberty blocker history would be particularly relevant, but cross sex hormones might also have an effect.

I had cancer thirty years ago, which as far as I know, was completely removed. Almost every time I go to the doctor for anything more complicated than the above mentioned ear infection, they ask about it.

Your medical history (and potential status as pregnant) is relevant for all kinds of situations, and will affect what you can be prescribed.

The extreme prejudice you demonstrate in your post suggests that you are unlikely to be a reliable witness when it comes to whether a medical professional was reasonable or not.

Deliberately provocative and possibly a reverse, IMO.

I am not sure a person who believes that it is possible to change sex is qualified to distinguish in which situations long term administration of cross sex hormones and potential surgery is relevant for their healthcare.

In the same time it might had been a bad encounter with a conservative practitioner, not everyone who doesn't buy into the trans ideology is really gender critical.

I've no idea if you'll even read this. I hope you get the care you need. Blaming people on the mumsnet isn't even understandable, but I can see you wanted to hit out after having a bad experience, and here we are kapow.

I was thinking Drive by Hissy Fit. 😂

Yeah, we understand. You are pissed off and think your post will be ‘stirring up a hornets nest.’ The reality is that it shows your very own deep prejudice about others, it shows you want to admonish others when the behaviour of the health professional is of little relevance to those you are admonishing, and you refuse to give further information to clarify making it impossible to judge whether you are justified or not. Sadly, without more information it just looks like you are the ignorant one. Well done with the own goal.

You can be a gender critical activist or a trans rights activist and still speak politely and correctly to everyone you meet at work. Numerous workplace discrimination cases have made this clear (pity that it's been neceessary to have these cases at all, but at least that is now clear.)

There are many situations where a medical worker will need to know what sex you are as well as your gender identity. The relevance might not always be obvious to you. The worker should have been trained to get this information politely and sensitively and to share information with you in the same way. In a medical emergency polite communication can be missed but from what you say this wasn't an emergency so the worker should probably have done better.

So if you think the health worker was doing it deliberately or had not been trained in the proper way to speak to you then yes do go ahead with your complaint. I hope it's dealt with quickly and effectively. If you want advice there are some very knowledgeable women here.

I've talked with loads of people about this and nobody thinks this is unreasonable

Perhaps the people you talked to haven't thought it through themselves, or perhaps they are trying to be sympathetic and they don't want to argue with you.

It is unreasonable - in fact it is illegal - to expect people with GC beliefs to just refuse to work with trans people. You can however expect them to treat you with respect regardless of their personal beliefs and you have every right for your complaint to be upheld if they don't.

Be aware that you refusing to work with a colleague or support a service user or client whose beliefs are different from yours could potentially be discriminatory so you could be putting your boss in a difficult position especially if no suitable replacement for you is available. If the collegue/ client/ service user is rude or openly expresses prejudice that's when your boss should support you.

Women have been and are still fighting for medical care for women's bodies and not just be considered as small men with yucky periods by the medical community. The way our bodies react to disease and treatment thereof is still widely unknown. Heart attacks for example are frequently misdiagnosed in women. Pain management for another example is usually dismissed. Endometriosis takes an average of 7 years to diagnose. Women are more likely to have physical symptoms ignored and be put on antidepressants.
The reality is OP is that your body is female. You may wish it wasn't, hey I wish to be 3 inches taller. If I wear heels I will look taller but it's just pretend.

It is possible to be gender critical without being transphobic!

@NoShortKing - I think it is utterly hypocritical for you to say that trans people should be able to refuse treatment from a healthcare professional because of their beliefs, but trans activists say that no biological woman can insist on having intimate care from another biological female. And lesbians cannot have female only groups, or say that they don’t want penetrative sex from a biological male simply because he has declared himself to be a woman and a lesbian.

Hell, women aren’t allowed female only loos or changing rooms, but you want to discriminate against anyone who doesn’t enthusiastically espouse your (mistaken) belief that humans can change sex.

Free speech and sunlight.

Thanks OP.

Whilst you come across as misinformed (about what gender critical actually means) posts like yours are enlightening for those who do seek to, genuinely, educate themselves around the issues.

Certainly "not in the spirit" but I'm not sure there should be such a closely policed "spirit" in the first place.

On the off chance you're reading OP and that any of what you wrote is true, YOU'VE BEEN LIED TO. People who cared about you would never tell you that disagreement = wishing you didn't exist. That's what cults do. Not friends.

I'm trans (booo!) and started transitioning 17 years ago.

You might want to look at your own prejudice.

You've come here with the attitude that we are all awful and to lecture us.

I don't think that anyone should be treated with a lack of respect.

asked me clearly inappropriate questions which was obviously from 'gender critical' rhetoric. I ended up leaving and now I have all the palaver of having to go through the practice manager to make a complaint.

You don't say what the 'inappropriate questions' were. You've decided they were inappropriate but you don't give us enough information to decide whether they really were inappropriate (in which case, we might be able to support you and to say yes you are justified in your complaint). Instead we are left to take your word for it.

The problem here is the number of cases we've seen of denial of reality and a wish to pretend that sex doesn't matter. The problem is that sex continues to matter after transition and it may well be relevant to your care in certain circumstances.

I also do not think it is ok to force others into your belief system. Pronouns use is about controlling other people. That's not ok. I'm also curious as to how you were misgendered if you were being addressed directly. You don't typically use pronouns when addressing people directly.

I find your post somewhat leading and goady for that reason.

I will stress the point again that I do think that all patients should be treated with respect and dignity but I also think there are other issues going on with your own confrontational attitude to come on here and tell us that we are doing things wrong.

None of us are to blame for how some person treated you at the doctors. Why are you trying to pin it on MN and anyone gender critical? Could you explicitly explain why you think it's women on MNs fault? Why did you feel the need to come and scold us?

It's fascinating to see this happen. You have come and sought us out, rather than deal with the issue properly through the appropriate channels. And you don't even give us the details of why it was so problematic anyway.

So yeah. Meh. I don't see why we should be engaging with this particularly.

My ex MIL went to the GP once and was very upset that they referred to her as an ex smoker.

In her eyes she made the effort to give up so why was she being 'judged'?

I pointed out that medically speaking, she will always be an ex smoker, as although her risks of certain disease aren't as high as a smoker, they aren't as low as a 'never smoker'. She didn't realise this and was a bit sheepish about having moaned about the doctor 'judging' her (as if the GP would give a toss about her smoking status beyond the relevance to her health).

I think this is probably a similar situation - if you're not a medical person it's not always obvious what is medically relevant and what isn't.

Lol yes I can just imagine it now…

Me: I don’t think I should work with trans people.

My boss: you’re sacked.