Offensive stickering

[crayonsharpeners]

Saw this posted on Ovarit. Can anyone confirm if this is a real sticker sold by KJK and SFW? Awful messaging if so. Hoping it's some TRA hoax.

Does anyone else think this one completely misses the mark - to me it looks like a bog standard, common or garden celebratory pride top.

Dorothy wanted to be 'over the rainbow'.

https://www.letwomenspeak.org/rainbow-yellow-t-shirt

And?

How is it an oversimplification to say that humans are male or female and it is impossible to change sex, or be "in the wrong body", and that it's an imposition to demand people deny the truth? What is rude about telling the truth, and why does it matter that the people demanding we lie might be distressed, but it doesn't matter that women are?

I've never seen that one, but to me it's a clever turn of phrase - as in "I am so over this".

That would be nice.

I get that, you get that, but for the average person walking down the street?

Not all "gender critical" people believe that.
I believe you can't change sex. Therefore I'm gender critical.

I don't believe humans cam only ever be viewed through the prism of male/female. There's a huge load of stuff where sex doesn't matter and in those cases I personally DGAF how someone chooses to identify. Up to them.

Anyway, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's a derail to dig into the details of this to "win" an argument. It's also irrelevant as to the topic which was about whether some of KJKs stickers are offensive.

Well, no it's not irrelevant, because your opinion on the topic will impact your responses.

You will have different boundaries to me and therefore we are likely to find different things 'offensive'. I won't understand why you are bothered by things that don't bother me, or bother me less, until I understand your opinions. Once I know what they are, I can see what they are based on. I can then either explain why I think you are incorrect, or I might even change my own opinion.

'Offensive' is a matter of opinion.

Hi @CassieMaddox I don't think trans people should not exist. I know they don't. And I do not want men in frocks in my grand-daughters' changing rooms, lavatories etc. Simples.

I believe you can't change sex. Therefore I'm gender critical.

Knowing you can’t change sex does not make you gender critical. In order to be gender critical you have to be critical of the concept of gender. Hence the name.

*I believe you can't change sex. Therefore I'm gender critical.

That's not gender critical. And since you proliferate on these threads, I'm sure you know it isn't.

Gender critical means exactly that. Critical of gender. Gender being the roles and expectations imposed on people by society, due to their sex. And in terms of feminism, especially women.

So, to develop… if you are critical of the concept of gender then you believe the expectations of presentation, behaviour, and roles imposed by society based on sex are harmful should be dismantled. It then follows there is no room for transideology which relies on and reinforces these roles and expectations.

Is sex realism different from gc? I've seen both terms used, seemingly interchangeably.

They are not the same. All GC thinkers are sex realists. Not all sex realists are GC.

Thanks, I got all confused.

It's irrelevant to get into an argument about whose definition of gender critical is right, is what I mean.

Completely agree that people's opinions impact responses. I respect people's rights to different opinions. You don't find the stickers offensive, I do, we are both entitled to do so.

But later comments (not yours) show there's going to be a row about the precise meaning of gender critical if I engage in it and I think its fruitless and a potential derail.

Why don't you go and read some of the dictionary definitions and have a think about the role of flexibility/different opinions? You seemed quite keen on that wrt grooming, so you can apply the same approach here.

I'm critical of the concept of gender but I don't think it doesn't exist.

At the moment gender exists in society as a bunch of stereotypes and maybe ways people express their sex (I.e. - females more nurturing is a common view, not one I share).

Gender dysphoria exists.

I can be critical of gender but still recognise these two things to be true.

I'm a gender abolitionist actually and would prefer a society where we didn't have segregation except for dignity and safety. So the whole concept of "womens spaces" outside that I find regressive and paradoxically upholding gender stereotypes.

But yeah. Derail and last time I tried to explain my thinking I got accused of being complicit in sexual abuse of women so I'd rather not thanks.

I think you are straight talking enough to say that but often there's a tendency to say "GC people are accused of thinking trans shouldn't exist, but that's a smear" when in fact it's the logical position of lots of people.

I appreciate people who are honest about their views.

but often there's a tendency to say "GC people are accused of thinking trans shouldn't exist, but that's a smear"

You won't find any gender critical women saying people shouldn't exist. But the concept of trans doesn't exist in the way that transactivists says it does.

They are people with gender dysphoria.

But gender dysphoria is a symptom. Mostly of homophobia and sexism.

Gender critical is what feminists are, from the get-go. One of the reasons, presumably, why they were quick to spot the writing on the wall with regards to trans ideology.

The ideology relies on sexist stereotypes in order to exist. If a man identifying as a woman isn't relating to the actual sex of the women, i.e. gametes, childbirth, uterus, then what makes him think he is one?

It's the way women think, or behave. When in reality, no two women think or behave the same.

He's relying on stereotypes. And often highly sexist ones, at that. You don't tend to see these men shouldering the childcare, looking after elderly parents and cleaning the toilets.

We had a transwoman on here a few years ago who said they only felt they could be 'vibrant' when dressed as a woman.

The ideology upholds strict gender roles. Cements them in. Hence gender critical.

That doesn't stop almost the entire rest of the world understanding that humans can't change sex, hence sex realism.

I don't think I said anywhere that I didn't find the stickers offensive.... I don't like them much, I think they're too easy to misinterpret, though I'm not sure that I find them offensive... but my bar for 'offensive' is pretty high.

And it's not irrelevant to argue about whose definition of GC is correct, because we need clear definitions so that we know what we're discussing. Particularly when the goalposts are likely to be moved.

Gender dysphoria is a mental disorder. We don't attach "identities" to mental disorders. Trans identity is a chimera. People have the right to describe themselves as they wish but no one else has to agree.

It used to be the far right that obsessed over identity - now it's the left. The lobby has gone for the Hitler doctrine (yes, I'm going there) - "who cares what you think - I've got your kids".

Which is why they're pushing it on young kids in schools. Way too early. To hell with the nonsense.