How to react when your child corrects you about someone's pronouns?

[Thirtyfiveandcounting]

My dd is 12 & so far has had a very sheltered life. I am extremely GC & she has never asked about trans or non binary & does not have a phone . Anyways she had a sleepover with a friend in Sun night, she came home & was talking about a particular signed, I said he's a great singer & she said very crossly "they, he's non binary".. I didn't know how to react so I just said "that's me corrected!" to which she replied "yes it is" 😭 She said the girls mother then showed them a video of this singers new music video..
I think I should be blasé & not push my opinion which might push her into rejecting me? I don't want to get this wrong.

Yes, it is. But you can tell someone's sex quite easily. It's fairly obvious in most cases. Besides, everyone is non-binary i.e. having no gender identity. This is the state of play for c.98% of people.

It's technically incorrect if you know the sex. You can use it - people have since the 16th century - but it's tortuous, and if you are doing it then the point is to conceal sex - have you ever read 'The Turbulent Term of Tyke Tyler'?

The first part I would possibly let slide the attitude I would not ds attempted to "correct" me the other day (nearly 12) I said excuse you! mind your manners

I've discussed excessive pronoun use at length with my boys it's fine to respect people using their pronouns as long as they arnt crazy but rudeness isn't to be tolerated you speak kindly especially if someone doesn't actually know information "imagine your teacher standing in the front calling someone an idiot for not knowing 2+2=4 or a nursery teacher telling a bunch of young children it's aBC OBVIOUSLY these are things that are taught kindly because their audience doesn't actually know the answer yet" same with pronouns your not to know everyone's pronouns and in this day and age never assume use names/they if your unsure kind people will tell you nicely arse holes will make themselves known fast and you can always find another friend

No because reputable publications provide the filter.

Don't be so ridiculous! This non-binary nonsense is just that - nonsense! It's a ridiculous trend that needs to stop now. Absolutely nobody should be forced into changing the words they have been using to describe people all their life!

It might be the point they are trying to make, but let's be real, there's very few people so genuinely androgynous that you can't tell at a glance. It might be kind to pretend. I don't want to pretend.

Ha! She'd get short shrift from me. Firstly for correcting me. Then she'd be reminded what my GC views are and not to correct me again.

Sam Smith is a dude. A dude who sings about how cool and sexy it is when a husband decieves his wife and leaves her at home with their children so he can go and have casual sex at a BDSM club.

Time your daughter learned a bit about feminism.

My niece tried this with me - I asked ‘what sex is X? Because pronouns are sex-based’ and she looked at me as if it had never occurred to her then agreed with me. Of course she got the ‘’be kind’ from DH. I chipped in with the ‘don’t let people bully you’.

This was when she was 11 and had just started at a girls school.

How was OP disrespectful in that post?

@EntirelyMadeofBosoms please help with some good resources on what NB means.

No it's not technically incorrect at all. You can have a preference, but you don't get to say things are incorrect because they aren't used in the style you prefer. It's also not solely used to conceal sex either, we use it all the time when the sex of a person referenced is also irrelevant.

Yes I have but god knows how long ago.

Lol - the outdated views are gender ideology with its regressive adherence to gender stereotypes. It’s so conservative and old-fashioned.

@Thirtyfiveandcounting
It's concerning that you're worried about her opinion of you and that she may reject you. That's an awful lot of power to bestow on a 12 year old.

The first conversation I'd be having would be about her rudeness.

No but they usually do. Give 'em time.

Why do people bring up ‘oh but people have been saying they for centuries!’ This was NOT because the person has decided that they are awfully special…

Ooh, you’re deep in the woo there 🤣 Er, yes, we can tell the sex of people. If you can’t, you’ve got a problem. You look at Sam Smith and think Sam Smith is a woman?? Humans have a remarkable ability to correctly sex other humans, women more so than men.

Edited to add that I find the use of “assigned” fucking offensive. Pinching language from people with DSDs is nasty.

Ah, no worries then. If someone isn't confident making their own critical judgement about the things they read then it's probably best they keep within their own comfort zone and leave the critical thinking to others.

I believe in biological reality. Biological fact. I dont believe it's possible in any meaningful way to change sex. I certainly wouldn't allow a child to dictate to me in my own home around referring to a man or a woman using the correct sex.

But we have to accept being called cis women

One family I know have a teen who started identifying as non-binary. The teen isn't gay and didn't have anorexia, and the family don't fit any of those criteria.

The child has now gone back to using their correct-sex pronouns.

She's twelve and it's likely just a phase. I'd be tempted at this stage to nod, smile and change the subject. See how (or if) these notions develop and then take a view on how you might need to proceed.

Indeed.

A lot of people take their cues from the clothes someone wears and their haircut and don't look too closely to start with. Many people just assume stereotypes when doing so.

Then, depending on how much they interact, how much attention they are paying or what the situation is, they'll most likely realise the person's sex pretty quickly. Sometimes it's blindingly obvious right from the start. A lot depends on how old the person is, what sex they are and whether they have been through puberty.

My short-haired, "boys' clothes" wearing 15 year old girl is often mistaken for a boy when it's a passing or short interaction e.g. in a shop. This doesn't cause any issues unless a) someone starts asking her what her pronouns are (🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️*) or b) it's specifically important that her sex is clear e.g. when she got patted down at an airport by a man a few years ago. I watched the other (female) security guard walk over to him and have a word afterwards. He looked very embarrassed. Clearly it was very obvious to her that my daughter was a short-haired girl. My daughter was uncomfortable too but it all happened too quickly for it to be stopped, unfortunately.

It's a shame that we've reached a stage in society where stereotypes are so rigidly "respected" that we've forgotten about the Grace Jones, Annie Lennox and New Romantics etc. If anyone has got their sex wrong based on looking at their clothing, everyone would have simply laughed together and moved on. Now it's the door-opener in to gender identity belief 🤦‍♀️

*She is autistic. I've seen first hand the confusion that this question leads to when repeatedly asked. Whilst people think that they're being kind, they're effectively asking "Are you happy with your body or would you like to change it?".

You have no idea at all of the number of times someone has presented to you as a girl/boy/man/woman and you've simply accepted that without having any idea that their "sex" is different to the gender they identify as.

I love it when TRA types try this particular gaslight.

The ability to immediately and accurately determine sex predates us humans. It exists in the Paleomammalian brain which as you know consists of the hypothalamus, amygdala and hippocampus - neuro activity which was highly sophisticated for millennia before the evolution of hominids and which is so speedy, honed as it is by millennia of mammalian evolution, that we can tell sex accurately without even engaging our conscious brain.

The reason that we can tell sex so effectively is simple - it's a matter of survival. In cro magnon male terms: knowing whether the person approaching you is a man (potential threat) or a woman (less threat, easier to overcome, plus possible chance to reproduce) has been absolutely key in the evolution and success of our species.

All that to say: we know. We've always known. Even before we were, we knew. And no amount of Butlerian nonsense which started in 2012 will ever stop that being the reality.

I'm amazed that human beings are managing to reproduce,what with the amount of difficulty we're supposed to have telling one sex from the other.

But what does non-binary mean? How can someone feel non-binary?