How to react when your child corrects you about someone's pronouns?

[Thirtyfiveandcounting]

My dd is 12 & so far has had a very sheltered life. I am extremely GC & she has never asked about trans or non binary & does not have a phone . Anyways she had a sleepover with a friend in Sun night, she came home & was talking about a particular signed, I said he's a great singer & she said very crossly "they, he's non binary".. I didn't know how to react so I just said "that's me corrected!" to which she replied "yes it is" 😭 She said the girls mother then showed them a video of this singers new music video..
I think I should be blasé & not push my opinion which might push her into rejecting me? I don't want to get this wrong.

Actually it is the epiphany of all good research, including reputable sources only. The irony.

At 12, the time for telling her your opinions has passed. Opinions are for friends, colleagues, strangers, but not for offspring.

My approach with my dc is to encourage them to explain things to me, and to talk with curiousity and take an interest in their world. Many people think they understand something until they try and explain it out loud, and letting dc have a safe space to sound out things with you is really valuable.

DS is 15 now and we can have a “devils advocate” discussion and explore alternative positions without him feeling belittled or diminished or attacked. I can’t tell him WHAT to think but I can lead him through the steps of critical thinking and reasoned debate and teach him the vital skill of agreeing to disagree and remaining friendly with opposing views.

@Whatever1964, I don’t claim it is incorrect- but I maintain that it is potentially confusing for people with communication difficulties; people for whom English is not their first language, and people who are just not very intelligent.

I've had this with my children.

They've said 'they're non binary' I've said 'I don't believe in that'

in the same way as when they said 'I have to have a car, everyone else has a car'
I also said 'I don't believe in that' (ie. that everyone needs a car)

I don't have a problem disagreeing with my children.

Just because they're convinced something is true doesn't mean I can't be very very sceptical about it.

What do you mean by "epiphany" here?

@Peskysquirrel Did PP possibly mean ‘epitome’? That would have made more sense.

I worked in China for a decade. Chinese doesn’t distinguish between sex for pronoun purposes. Chinese people speaking English would sometimes just randomly pick “him/her/his” and hope for the best. They’d love it if we just used “they” for everyone!

Well I was replying to a comment that stated it was incorrect and you quoted me to imply it was. There are plenty of aspects of English that are more difficult for anyone with English as a second language or not-intelligent people than a singular they pronoun.

@Marblessolveeverything

Actually it is the epiphany of all good research, including reputable sources only. The irony.

Assuming you mean epitome, or something similar. For someone with weak critical evaluation skills, certainly, I would advise them to stick to sources with strong existing reputations. For people with stronger critical evaluation skills, I think the really value is generated by reading and thinking more widely. I don't think you need to be afraid of 'non-state' sources. I think what matters is how well-founded the argument and evidence is, not whether it's a government that published it.

Unless you specifically ask every person you meet to show you their genitals (in which case, you would presumably be in some sort of institution rather than posting on MN) you have no idea if you know what sex someone is.

My stepdaughter is NB but still using she/her pronouns, but presents mostly masculine, and EVERYONE who doesn't know us assumes she's a boy. You have no idea whatsoever if you've ever come across her or someone similar on your travels and casually referred to her as "son", "sir", "young man" or alluded to what a great "brother" she is to her younger sister. She wouldn't have corrected you, just smiled and continued with her day and you'd have gone away thinking you'd just met a polite young boy. I wonder how many times that has happened without you even realising.

Epiphany of good research. The realisation of the common denominator of all good research - your source. Always referred to by many of my professors in the 90s.

Go to a reputable and validated source. Agree or disagree with the findings but don't set up to fail by considering non reputable sources.

What I fully expect is that will be reinterpreted to mean I believe xyz 🤦‍♀️.

@Whatever1964, I didn’t meant to imply it was incorrect usage- sorry if that’s how it came across. What I was trying to say is that it can be correct usage but usually only in certain circumstances (don’t know the person’s sex/talking about hypothetical person).

Probably impossible for either of us to prove this either way. But there are some differences between male and female bodies, voices and gaits which usually make things fairly obvious.

Its pretty different when its M to F though, no showing of genitals needed, especially after the age of around 12/13.
Even when we all had to wear masks in Covid it was pretty easy to spot people who were formerly male who were now presenting as female (whatever that even means)

'Presenting as a male' does not make you non binary - it's simply a style choice.

One I used as a preference (and at times for safety) frequently as a young person.

Did people think I was a boy - yes, quite often. The 70s universal bowl cut and brother's hand me downs helped that.

Still had to do wretched needlework at school though. If only I could have identified out of that!

So have you read the Cass Report @Marblessolveeverything ?

Yes and it's correct in the way it's being used on Sewing Bee is the point.

LOL are you REALLY peddling that you can’t tell? Stop it 😂

We are instinctively designed to recognise a male even if they are wearing a dress and wig. Our brain recognises it before we even process it. Its thousands of years of survival experience - Adam’s Apple, eye brow ridge, gait, arm length, hand size, shoulders ect..

Young women may occasionally get away with pretending to be young males but that will not last for ever.

So to pretend we all just can’t tell is laughable

@Marblessolveeverything

I've never come across that use of epiphany before (not even now, looking for it online). I'll look out for it.

Go to a reputable and validated source. Agree or disagree with the findings but don't set up to fail by considering non reputable sources.

I think that's probably good advice for most students. Obviously some people have to consider sources beyond that, otherwise no source could ever become 'reputable and validated'. That's where critical analysis ability is particularly important.

On new and contested issues, and especially with types of knowledge that are inherently social (such as how language is to be used), sticking to what others say is reputable is quite limiting. It also hands a lot of power to authority figures.

Well, maybe once you've practised a bit more you'll be better at being tolerant of other people? Good for your DD, I say.

It's not a binary though, which is kind of the point. There are AMAB people who look very feminine and AFAB people who look very masculine, there are women with PCOS who can grow a full beard and men with low testosterone who never grow much hair at all, men with small voice boxes and a higher pitch and women who have broad shoulders and are 6'5". You THINK you've correctly identified the sex of every person you've ever met because it's only arisen as an issue when the person you're analysing is not, in your view, passing as the gender they claim to be.

You have no idea at all of the number of times someone has presented to you as a girl/boy/man/woman and you've simply accepted that without having any idea that their "sex" is different to the gender they identify as.

The issue relates to a teen reiterating an adult identification not a child.

I refuse to provide my reading list as it isn't the topic being discussed.

It’s correct if you believe that a person can be non-binary.

You are right and the PP wrong about the use of 'epiphany'.

@GenderRealistBloke On new and contested issues, and especially with types of knowledge that are inherently social (such as how language is to be used), sticking to what others say is reputable is quite limiting. It also hands a lot of power to authority figures.

Totally agree. I would also add: who is funding the research and what type of research is being funded.
For example, are drug companies reputable sources?