Starmer tw don't have the right to use women only toilets

[lcakethereforeIam]

It's a headline in the Telegraph. Unfortunately when I archive it it goes to an article about that twat Ashworth refusing to answer. So, I've screenshot the headline

I think the feedback from the constituencies, plus the nurses suing the NHS have finally made them think.
As everyone else has said; its just words.

But all policy starts with words. We keep it on record and we keep pushing once Labour brings this up properly in Parliament.

God knows, if WPATH managed it on a completely made up evidence base, we should be able with millenia of biology and male violence behind us.

I'm actually more relaxed than most about Keir flipflopping. I would rather see him backtrack and try to fix things than adhere rigidly to dogma. That's how we ended up with the Rwanda mess.

Now, the question is; which civil servants will be advising the new Government on this? We need to scrutinse the experts behind the throne.

Yes. Starmer giving a tiny handful of token words to women isn't enough.

Comment from an MTF person on Reddit with my comments:

Fucking hell. We're really at the point where trans women are being referred to as "males with GRCs" in the mainstream press.

I feel like I'm living in some sort of opposite world.

You and me both

Why won't anyone point out the obvious, that GRCs have nothing to do with spaces?

Why do you assume that male GRC holders can use spaces intended for women then?

I'm having my rights and dignity restricted to appease a bunch of cranks who are, objectively, fucking wrong.

Er, DARVO.

KS is so dishonest. He’ll say anything for votes, nothing whatsoever to do with his principles (I’m starting to think he doesn’t have any). Plus he seems to think we’ve all suffered brain injuries and can’t recall his very recent proclamations on the matter or those of him minions. Gaslighting. I wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him.

God. That's soo DARVO, almost can't tell who's talking!!

There was a very recent Sex Matters poll showing how many people who voted Labour in 2019 disagree with Labour on this issue.

Ah, here we go:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5109560-survey-finds-48pc-of-those-who-backed-labour-in-2019-support-tory-pledge-to-amend-equality-act-to-protect-single-sex-spaces

I think you are looking to be convinced of this because you want to vote Labour.....I get that...lots of others have been in same position......but Starmer is as slippery and evasive as hell, and in saying this two days before an election, whilst not having said it at every single point up until then, suggests, very much, he's trying to mop up the mighty mess this issue has created for him, not that he's changed position.

Labout have every intention, they say so, of making it easier for men to get a GRC - and that these "vulnerable men" with a GRC will be able to use women's facilities..."but not all of them, all of the time"....or something like that......

I know I'm quoting myself, but this so illustrates everything.

'Women think they're right'.

There's too much of women thinking they're right. Clearly they're not right, even over their own spaces, their own biology, their own sex class and their own decisions.

Whatever fucking next? How dare women appear to have an attitude that I can't change.

all this bloody malfunctioning, I need to go to the service desk.

A couple of minutes ago on R4 Woman's Hour the presenter just asked a Tory spokeswoman (I missed who) what about transwomen in workplace toilets. The answer was clear that biological women should not have to share and she cited the case of the nurses. There's a Labour spokeswoman on now. I'm hoping the same question is going to be put to her. It will be very revealing.

I’d probably have a lot more respect and trust for Starmer if he actually acknowledged what he’s said in the past. Then, in saying something different, I might think he meant it. Instead, apparently he’s been saying all along there must be ‘safe spaces’ for ‘biological women’; which just makes me wonder what his definition of ‘biological women’ actually is

Here we go...

We need to make sure not to fall into the " biological women" trap.......it is the latest ruse to assert that there are two types of women, and only one of them are " biologically"women. The other type, of course, are commonly known as men.

Actually I don't think this is a Labour person, I think it's a journalist summarising their policies.

Let me guess "a small small number of very vulnerable people"

Talking about the Times article now.

This has been shared by my candidate.

If they believed this, they would not have written the manifesto as they did. It's that simple.

They'll fuck us over. They just have to tiptoe to Thursday and then they can do what they like.

Vote for whoever you want but I refuse to enable them to harm women and children.

Not clear what KS would do in practice. Detail is pretty thin.

When are we going to hear how men will be told not to even attempt entry to places where they are not wanted, with our without a penis, GRC or makeup and wig and a dress? When are we going to hear that men should be kind to other men?

There's too much of women thinking they're right. Clearly they're not right, even over their own spaces, their own biology, their own sex class and their own decisions.

Whatever fucking next? How dare women appear to have an attitude that I can't change.

It's worth reading the Reddit thread I linked. To the men of all genders on that subreddit, women are at best an afterthought. They seem to have decided that you don't need a GRC to change your "legal sex" now.

Woman's Hour have just have Maria Caulfield (tory) on, being very clear about women's right to single sex spaces and mentioning the nurses in Durham. Nuala giving the hypothetical scenario of a TW and a woman in a workplace conflict over toilets and what should the manager do? MC absolutely clear that the woman's right to single sex provision trumps the TW's.

MC was standing in for Rishi Sunak. Very tellingly at this stage, Kier Starmer did not accept the Woman's Hour gig and also failed to appoint a stand in. Generalised statements have been issued instead. His statement on 'gender' focuses on banning conversion therapy (sounds so reasonable to the uninitiated, doesn't it?) and 'simplifying' the GRC process - lots of detail making out it's ridiculously complicated currently. The cervix issue has been raised, but he has apparently 'clarified' that he knows that only born women have a cervix but when he made those comments he was trying to preserve the dignity of trans people, and reduce the toxicity of the debate. (What a lovely guy - that'll go down well with the ladies, eh?) Even the correspondent reporting Labour policy admits that his promises around single sex spaces are 'pretty thin.'

Apologies meant to quote you @Datun

Sorry - was typing all that while listening, and while other people were posting similar!

When are we going to hear how men will be told not to even attempt entry to places where they are not wanted, with our without a penis, GRC or makeup and wig and a dress? When are we going to hear that men should be kind to other men?

Exactly. At this point this is all I want. Tell all men they aren't entitled to use women's spaces. Back up women when they say they feel uncomfortable with men in their space. Decent men do.

Great summary, WinterTrees!