Trans people; why is it our responsibility?

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Okay, so trans identifying folks say that they need access to women's spaces because they aren't safe in men's spaces. I get that, but it is a problem caused by men. Therefore the solution should be about men, not women. So why isn't the main focus on targeting these men, campaigning for harsher penalties for such hate crimes? Why instead are they expecting women to compensate them for male behavior, making ourselves feel less safe in the process?

I would love for a trans identifying person to answer that question.
Has anyone here ever asked a trans person this question and received an honest answer?

I'm not hardcore "terf" as I respect everyone's right to decide who and what they are. My problem with it is when it conflicts with other people's rights to safety and security. I would really like to them to tell us why the violent men who cause this problem are being let off the hook and women are the ones targeted with all this anti-terf hate.

Because it's the violent men campaigning (as faux trans allies) to gain access to vulnerable women and children. They're on the same side. They are easy to spot, they are often found wearing face masks and shouting at women.

It's absolutely outrageous that the solution to making Trans people feel safe is to make women feel unsafe.

Is that you, Sir Kier? Stella Creasy is going to give you a big wedgie when she finds out you're talking to us!
Can you do us a favour and explain to David Lammy that you can't get a cervix on prescription from boots?

I have asked exactly this question. The answer always seems to be ‘because transwomen are women’. Any suggestion that that might not be acceptable to women results in fury rather than any kind of recognition that there might actually be an issue, never mind any attempt to find a compromise (eg 3rd spaces).

This is exactly why the ‘both sides are toxic’ comments are so hurtful and lacking in any kind of understanding of the issue. I suggest, OP, that your very reasonable position does indeed make you a ‘hardcore Terf’

I really hope you get some considered answers from posters who believe that it is women’s job to provide them with a ‘safe space’ (thanks for that terminology Kier). Sadly, I doubt you will.

Well, quite, OP.

I'm not hardcore "terf" as I respect everyone's right to decide who and what they are. My problem with it is when it conflicts with other people's rights to safety and security

That's exactly the 'hardcore terf' position, I'm afraid.

Erm… you are a hardcore terf. So am I apparently. What a time to be alive.

Yes, we are hardcore terfs for suggesting that men should take responsibility for their very poor behaviour towards a section of the community.

I’d like to hear from those women whose religion/community prevents them from sharing spaces with men. Presumably this means they can’t use the facilities, which in turn means they are unable to socialise/shop etc.

Some 'trans identifying folks' are females (often very young females) whose response to changes of puberty and the difficulties of a world awash with commercialised misogyny is to retreat into extreme self-harm.

As a feminist, why wouldn't I feel some responsibility for confronting the things that make the world so threatening and dangerous for them, as it is for the ones who take refuge in anorexia.

being a so called 'Terf' isn't about denying any transgender person their rights to be who they want to be....but to preserve and protect the rights of women and girls.

Men who identify as women come under a huge umbrella from men with a fetish of wearing women's clothes to men who have undergone surgery.
Women don't know who we're getting when they enter our space.

Some men who demand access to women's spaces are doing so purely for their own validation to be seen as a woman...regardless of whether they look female or not. Actually in some cases to make females uncomfortable is a turn on. ( so many threads on twitter/X in this vein)

There is little evidence of male violence towards TiM's in men's spaces, rather a fallacy to gain access to our spaces.

So yes, I agree, this is a male problem to sort out,rather than women shouldering the burden of being put in difficult and uncomfortable positions.

Actually, make that most trans-identifying folks are females.

Getting men to stop being violent is too much effort. It's much easier to throw women in the way to act as human shields and say hit them instead.

Women are told that we shouldn't complain about men in our toilets/changing rooms as there are cubicles and it makes no difference who is in the next one. Women can call the police if attacked and should be locking the door. Apparently this is not the case for transwomen in the gents because reasons.

Actually, make that most trans-identifying folks are females.

I think most of the young ones are female, but I think anecdotally most within the Stonewall umbrella definition would be male cross dressers.

Sorry meant to quote you @DeanElderberry

Because men and their feelings are more important than women and girls' physical safety.

Because although safety of transwomen is the headline given reason, it is also about validation and passing in the world as the opposite sex. This falls apart if we are to deal honestly with the situation by correctly identifying their sex. And also a reason why there is no campaign for 3rd spaces (which could be safe).

Put very simply, bullies always punch down.

Apart from anything else, I don’t really buy the “not being safe in men’s toilets” claims. There may, of course, occasionally be times when men in women’s clothes are physically unsafe, but I suspect that in most day-to-day situations, out when shopping, for example, or at work, these men would be perfectly safe in men’s toilets. I’d like to bet I would be safe in men’s toilets most of the time and I’m clearly weaker than most men.

In bars, perhaps less so, as alcohol tends to make people less civilized. But I suspect part of the reason they are “unsafe” is because they are male and many of them show very male aggression, any time they see someone look at them in a way they don’t like.

Of course they’d rather be in women’s spaces, because quite apart from validation, there they are kings: stronger than everyone else and knowing they can easily cow most of the women who use that space, merely by being there.

All men who still use women’s spaces, despite the increasing obviousness that there are a lot of women who find it very uncomfortable, are bullies, but they mostly aren’t going to face up to the men who might meet aggression with aggression. They prefer, like all bullies, to pick on those who are weaker than them.

It's ironic though isn't it as men saying they don't feel safe in men's toilets because of all the...men, somehow means that it's OK for men to be allowed in women and girls' toilets, even though women and girls are more physically vulnerable. The logic, like with all TRA logic, is completely messed up.

I think I might be a terf. I had to look it up. Is it a bad thing?
I don't want to get banned, so what are we allowed to say?
I don't care if a man wants to wear a frock and call himself Julie, no skin off my nose, but there are places I do not want to see him.
If wearing a dress makes it uncomfortable for him to be in the men's spaces, that is his problem, surely? It does not mean he can come into ours.
Am I a terf?

What @PriOn1 said, 100%.

Because everything is always the fault of and responsibility of women. Men particularly believe this but a lot of women do too.

Sort everything out and always accommodate the wants of others, keeping your wants and needs at the bottom of the pile and above all else, Be Kind.

Yawn. A tiny tiny issue, that affects a tiny % of the population, is then made by them, a huge issue, affecting us all, politicians, our own views on feminism. Why? Just why have we allowed it to get this big, and how on earth do we re-take the power back from them?

What is a hardcore Terf?

Is it the women who scream that they want privacy from men the loudest?

It seems to have its roots deep in every institution now.