Operation let them speak is working

[Hoardasurass]

Oh dear it seems that the general public has started to wake up to the dangers of allowing men to falsify their birth certificate

Support for people's ability to change sex on birth certificate falls https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13519601/public-support-transgender-change-sex-birth-certificate.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

They'll use one of the devolved nations as a cutout

"the incoming administration may therefore be faced with an ongoing tension between an increasingly open and accepting society on the one hand and an apparent resistance to the advancement of transgender rights on the other."

Soooo close to getting it!

If an increasingly open and accepting society is resistant to a specific social movement, what might we reasonably conclude about that movement?

Quite, @FlirtsWithRhinos

People can falsify bits of paper all they want, but every cell has a person's DNA which contains the truth.

I wonder how many deaths will occur in the future as a result of a person's GP or hospital not conducting tests because they aren't aware of the patient's real sex. Not to mention the costs of unneeded tests/scans etc. and taking up room on gynaecology waiting lists for unexplained pelvic pain when it's really prostate cancer because people are too ignorant about biology and really believe that their balls turn into ovaries because they're on hormone therapy 🤦🏻‍♀️

Yes, why can't we change our place of birth? Just think how that would make life easier for a whole host of people.

What about date of birth? Again, what a difference that could make in all sorts of areas.

It should never have been that case that a Birth Certificate which is a factual record could be changed.

It has long surprised me that no mother has ever challenged this.
I get that mothers don't tend to want to fall out with their children, and most want them to be happy or may be aware how mentally vulnerable they are. But I simply couldn't allow this to go unchallenged. It would wipe out MY lived experience. I know I gave birth to two daughters. Every time I changed a nappy I could be sure they were girls not boys. To change their birth certificate changes my life as a mother.
I would absolutely challenge it in court.
I'd also deposit the originals with a solicitor or in the bank where they could not be accessed.
I might make use of them at some point in the future if sufficiently provoked.

https://www.irishlegal.com/articles/high-court-no-basis-for-amending-birth-or-marriage-certificates-to-reflect-new-identities-under-witness-security-programme#:~:text=The%20High%20Court%20has%20determined,to%20reflect%20their%20new%20identities.

The judge opined that insofar as the plaintiffs asserted that birth certificates are documents “core to their identity”, they were making birth certificates into something which they are not. “A birth certificate is a historical record, not an identity document, albeit that it is clear from the case law that having an accurate record is fundamental to one’s identity and, therefore, personhood,” he said.

This was posted on another thread recently. A case in Ireland regarding a family in the witness protection scheme who had been given assurances by the Gardai that along with new identities they would receive amended birth certificates. It turns out this is a big no no. So in the case where a family's lives were at considerable risk there was no exception made.

The hypocrisy that on a whim another type of person can change their birth cerificate just by obtaining a GRC. What is it about this ideology that all sense goes out the window?

I saw the DM article yesterday and was going to post the link to the article and the report but ....

Have to say I failed to find any mention of the issue, despite searching.

So if somebody could be kind enough to let me know which section and which page as I had not luck whatsoever!

Thanks.

Apologies, ignore post above - I had failed to see the download pdf bit.

And this - (page 24 for both)

A lot of it does boil down to family members not wanting to upset their relatives or "deny their reality" or to just be "right on".

My friend has 2 bio sons. One of the sons now identifies as she/her. My friend refers to her child as her daughter even though the child made it into adulthood as a male before swapping gender ID.

One of my relatives is bio female. Refers to themselves as him/they. My cousin refers to them as her nephew despite the fact they are clearly biologically female. It's so hard to navigate when it's close to home.

That's not to say that birth certs have been changed for my friends child or my relative but I think when push comes to shove, some people want to do right by their child despite the fact it might lead to long term fuck ups. And once a child is legal, they can do it themselves anyway.

That's a really clear set of stats. The sunlight is making it undeniable to people who either didn't care before, or had a limited understanding of what was going on behind closed doors.

This is interesting. The second question on transgender rights (page 25):

Do you think attempts to give equal opportunities have gone too far or not gone far enough for… Transgender people

I think the premise of this question could be challenged. It would be more interesting to see how many people see these opportunities as genuinely equal.

it isn't "an increasingly open and accepting society" then?

I don't think it is. I think we lived in a more tolerant society thirty-plus years ago than we do now, in general terms. But the falling support for 'transgender rights' (itself a loaded term, as PP have noted), is surely less to do with levels of 'tolerance', and more to do with increasing numbers of the public finding out what the hell is going on?

But the falling support for 'transgender rights' (itself a loaded term, as PP have noted), is surely less to do with levels of 'tolerance', and more to do with increasing numbers of the public finding out what the hell is going on?

They don't want to face up to that reality. So they obfuscate it as much as possible.

I mentioned this before on a thread. Plus, were the results on the GRC process consultation in 2020 or 2021 not worth using as a guide for labour? It appears not. But anyone I ask just ignores that as an inconvenient fact and repeats ‘but, but…. a consultation!’ Like we didn’t already have one in very recent history that Labour don’t seem to have used to shape their policies.

I do love looking back at the interview of the Dutch man who really wanted to lower his age and his side conversation with J Fae. It was good watching.

The record of birth does not just belong the child though does it.

For every woman that gives birth, this is also a legal record of the outcome of her birthing experience.

Are they saying those women have no right to have the truth of the sex of the child they gave birth to legally recorded?

Good point. I don’t agree that birth certificates should ever be changed but frankly if my child was suffering from this mental illness then that would hardly be the top of my priority list. Keeping an open relationship, trying to minimise self harm / mutilation and being there to pick up the pieces at the end would be the most important to me.

In a way though, I think this is good and shows their intention to just keep kicking the can down the road, rather than doing anything.

They saw what happened to Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP when they tried to force self-ID on Scotland and they won't want to repeat it. So they'll keep making non-committal noises and muttering about consultations, but they know it's a toxic and massively divisive issue and if they have any sense (debatable) they won't touch it with a barge pole.

*PronounssheRa" · Yesterday 07:46

the GRC really does change your actual birth certificate, and my jaw hit the floor.

It's madness isn't it being able to officially falsify a document. Birth certificates record sex but this can be changed to reflect an internal sense of gender

It's really aggravating for me personally. I found out, when applying for a birth certificate at the age of 19, to get a passport, that my name was mis-spelled. I rang up to complain that they'd copied it wrong... Oh no they hadn't.

I had to gather as much documentation as possible and send it with my passport application.

Now, if I said my name is Doreen and I'm a woman, no fucking problem.

Honestly, I read the discussions for years and just thought it was some kind of metaphor.

And without downplaying my ignorance, if I can do that after all that time on this board then I'm going to take a punt that it's a pretty widespread view.

It is the re-writing of everyone's history not just the person who has the GRC, which is unacceptable.

I did read somewhere that the point of the GRC was defining the relationship of the holder of one with the State so for the ability to marry someone of the same sex, the age at which a pension was claimable, etc. (both of which are now irrelevant due to separate law changes), and yet it has inevitably morphed into something entirely different as was predicted.

The GRA needs to go it, allowing such a fundamental lie is wrong on every level and has led to the shit show we now have.

I think the stuff about marriage and equality was one of the many falsehoods woven into this issue by the activists.

Others on the FWR board have done a deeper-dive than I, and the GRA was being discussed at the same time the other things were, so it was never truly about that.

When reviewing the Hansard record and other published consultations from the time it was always about the "right" to falsify records and ignore the very problems we see today.