Managers comment to me at work

[HandAndFootInMouth]

Not sure if this is the right place for this, but here goes.

I work with a couple of teens who identify as the opposite sex. One is a bit laid back about it all, but the other seems to take it very seriously. The second identifies as a boy and wants to be called he/ they. I’ve already been told by them that they dislike certain people because they misgender them. I’m struggling because I work closely with this person and I’m slipping up when caught off guard. I try to refer to them by their name, but often come out with she and her if I’m not concentrating.

I’ve worked with others identifying as the opposite sex but found it easier not to slip up, as they presented themselves in the opposite way whereas this person is not actually doing that. Basically she looks like a girl, and wants me to use he. I’m not doing it deliberately. I think I’m on course for a bollocking. Also, they identify as he, but use ladies toilets.

My issue is that I was talking to my manager and he said to me, “the problem is, your generation grew up in different times, and you never saw all this, so it’s hard for you to accept”. I felt really annoyed by this because it was like when you hear people saying older people are racist because they didn’t grow up around other cultures, they can’t help their ignorance.

That’s how it feels. I’m a middle age woman, I can’t help my ignorance over non binary etc.

I’d love a come back to my manager.

I try to keep my views out of work. I’m not paid to bring in my opinions. But, bloody hell, I’m walking on eggshells here.

The women should say that isn't appropriate and push for a different solution of course.

anybody who tells me I'm too ancient and decrepit (at 60) to understand non-binary i just roll my eyes and tell them i grew up with Marc Bolan, David Bowie, Annie Lennox and the new romantics. and that if they want to continue to show their ignorance that's on them.

The issue is, of course, we can tell someone's sex. If a girl/woman wants to indentify as a he/them they are going to need to make a bit of an effort or else nobody will do what they want.

@MILTOBE same here. I also listened to it. Something along the lines: “we are not only inventing new words but destroying the old ones”

just like it is happening with the wokeism crowd.

Whose to say you do or do not accept it, how does the manager get to judge that?

Old habits die hard. Eyes see one thing but mouth has to say another, not easy

I think @quantumbutterfly has observed that despite biological age, such men consider themselves as in the same 'generation' as the women they fancy (or fancy their chances with).

I can't take the credit, I think it was @LoobiJee

True enough, yes it was :-)

I guess I would be tempted to adopt neo pronouns like phthi / phthir ( because you are phthigender) but be really (phth)cool about people phthorgetting or mispronouncing

On Twitter/X, I saw a badge that someone was wearing at LWS today 'I'm kind but I'm not blind'.

Stroop effect.

See how fast you can say out loud the colours these words are written in when text and colour agree. Compare it to how slow you are when the word is written in a colour at odds with the word. Your brain races to say the word you are reading, not the colour it was written in.

That is what you are dealing with.

Ask him to 'stroop' himself. He will be slower on the mismatches. He's asking you to NOT be slower, but it's just not possible.

You grew up in a time when people understood the biological differences between male and female. We don't live in those times anymore, sadly. I'm sorry you're dealing with this.

Gives a new meaning to stroopwafel.

The problem and the risk is your manager, who appears to think you are too old to work in your current team. That needs sorting.

I would email him about the discussion you had. Something like ' This is just a note about our meeting on , when you said "[exact quote about you being too old/a different generation]" I definitely want to be a positive part of this team, and I look forward to [anything you can come up with, relating to current projects with the employees in question].'

Basically, get the ageism on written/dated record, without comment from you, with some vaguely positive stuff around it.

Then drill yourself on their pronouns as much as you can. Think before you speak. And plan to get your manager's job.

I just had a potential shot across the bows from my manager. I am pretty certain she didn't think I would see it that way, because I don't say anything about any of this at work. But I was discussing the antiracism work I want to do this year, particularly supporting students vulnerable to racism, and she brought up what a massive ally she is and how she deals with people who express GC views. So.. I am too old and canny to bring my whole self to work; I'm at the age where I just want to get through to retirement without being sacked or sued. I also want to support her, as a working mother of a child with health issues. Ie support genuinely vulnerable people. I will do what it takes to do that.

I love this response, you sound very wise. Out of interest, how did your son respond?

I hate doing that test!

I had 9 second time difference between the first and the second!

17 seconds difference. I am terrible at it.

5 seconds difference. That's a tough test.

It fucks your head I know that much!

This.

Have you considered running for PM? I’d definitely vote for you.

If we do... we are classed as terfs or transphobic. There is no solution is there, which is challenging part. Being female identifying as female in this complicated situation.

If f to m, prefer female toilets. .. however, m to f, prefer female to male toilets... also changing rooms in gyms and clothes shops.

Same with prisons etc. Seems want benefits of female. Which ever way transitioning of non binary.

It is a complicated Web. I do feel for op, they are making a conscious effort but it is never enough. Especially when female.

I would query his knowledge of your jurisdiction equality law, it includes age.

I'd be tempted to say something like, "Look, Clive. We are talking about someone who is biologically female, who uses women's toilets and presents in a typically feminine way, but wants us to refer to them as though they are not a woman. It's hard to remember to do this. Sometimes I just forget. Because this person's gender identity is invisible, it's based on their own subjective feelings, and from my point of view they just look the same as any other woman. So if I sometimes don't remember to call them "they" or "he", it's not personal. I don't want to be bullied or harassed about this or be made to feel like I'm walking on eggshells by forgetting to respect someone's invisible identity. I'll do my best to remember but I can't guarantee the occasional "she" will never slip out."

Watch the end of Eurovision where Graham Norton was hyper and excited about the winner and misgendered Nemo about 20 times! Every now and then he said a really deliberate they as though someone was flashing up a bit pronouns card at him but then he'd start talking quickly and forget again and again.

It is unnatural to ignore the evidencw if your own eyes, and sexed pronouns are one of the fundamental building blocks of language - go on Duolingo and see how long before you're translating 'she is a woman'. Unless it's changed in the year since i started scandi languages and Italian.

Your boss is being a buffoon

Not wanting to derail OP’s thread (& am far from wise, tho thanks for thinking it!) but, in brief, he was relieved. He’s naturally GC but being ND in a student environment means he is treading on eggshells he finds confusing. I suspect he may have disillusioned a few Special People by observing that they’re really a bit like his mam.

This is the trouble with compelled speech! It’s not harmless to ‘just use the pronouns someone has asked for’ it’s mentally exhausting and it’s not fair. Why should we have to lie? Wheres the respect for us?!