Tommy Robinson and Let Women Speak

[eatfigs]

I've only read about this on Twitter so there's a chance this is being taken out of context, but it looks like Let Women Speak were part of Tommy Robinson's rally in London this past weekend:

https://x.com/shularises/status/1797585248580186511

https://x.com/GappyTales/status/1797611080212205988

https://x.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1796931835823362392

This doesn't sit right with me at all. I've been to LWS events and thought I knew what they were about. I've argued against the guilt-by-association tactics that some activists use against LWS when male intruders have turned up to the events, like the neo-Nazis in Melbourne.

But here we see the opposite, LWS deliberately attending far-right fascist marches. This seems inexcusable to me.

I'm having to take a five hour train journey tomorrow. I'll probably be sharing a platform with all kinds of people. Will try my best not to be contaminated.

What an asinine comparison 😂

Any evidence yet of "corrupted everything"?

Got to make dinner so feeling a bit groundhog TBH.

I mean "everything" must be a big pile, visible from space. Can't you find it?

I've not found out which of you I'm "in a real life clique with" either so you can add that to your list.

https://savageminds.substack.com/p/anatomy-of-the-near-murder-of-kellie

Pre chewed ideas.

Do you believe in the much evidenced phenomenon of social contagion?

I believe there are strict rules for reporting about specific suicides, for example, to avoid copy cat situations.

There are lots of accounts by detransistioners (linked on other threads) about how they were attracted to being trans because they were suddenly seen as cool, they had social capital, people were falling over themselves in schools and healthcare to affirm and listen to them, and they got to have a flag. About belonging, rather than body dysphoria specifically.

Companies such as E45 with their new ad enthusiastically cheer on transistion.

Ofc there is such a thing as grooming which can take lots of forms including extreme political views. This is why we have Prevent training in the UK (government anti extremism training).

None of the positives which relate to trans identity applies to far right views - very few people would give you a positive response to expressing them. You are unlikely to be affirmed and encouraged by your school, GP, therapist, etc.

So no, I don't think your comparison holds.

I wonder if Tommy Robinson would agree with Kelly-Jay Keen when she advocates for the wholesale discrimination against trans people in employment and in rental accommodation?

Gosh, it's a toughie, to be sure.

On another note, I'm really confused about what we are and aren't allowed to say on this thread.

Apparently we should engage, but not too much (hounding) and only with the prescribed views (I'm not sure what they are) lest we be 'derailing'. Offering analogies for discussion appears to be deemed derailing. Is anything except wholehearted agreement acceptable? Even then, I'm not sure any more what I'm supposed to be agreeing with. It seems to be:

Anyone attending a rally / gathering/organisation deemed to be 'far right' for any reason should be shunned.

Anyone suggesting we explore why they were there should also be shunned.

Far right is not to be defined specifically, and is not limited to illegal organising/ gatherings but anyone op is opposed to.

Left = good and right= bad, but the terms Lefy and Right may not be discussed nor defined further.

A Bad Thing is determined solely at the discretion of OP. No rules for the determination of A Bad Thing are to be discussed or shared.

Anyone deemed to be doing A Bad Thing is to be shunned and not discussed further.

Anyone discussing Bad Things are persona non grata and must also be shunned and ridiculed.

Have I got that right?

Personally I think it's ok to shun and ridicule people that advocate wholesale discrimination against vulnerable populations (A Bad Thing?), but you do you.

Who are you talking about?

See my post above

I'm not sure that shunning and ridiculing has ever led to effective social change?

Wasn't this the problem with Brexit - no one listened to the disenfranchised? Discussed upthread.

You do you

Personally I'm going to steer away from the old shunning and ridiculing people just because of somewhere they went / someone they spoke to.

I think Posie makes a good point about being able to discriminate against employing men in employment like salons (the wax my balls case) and shops etc.

Privacy and dignity of women extends to those places. I didn't watch much as Posies stuff is never the outrageous stuff her detractors want you to think it is, that's been going on for years.

Thanks for posting her video here, I hadn't seen that one.

Actually it can be quite an effective mechanism of highlighting and calling out prejudices which unfortunately can gain footing and flourish in times of economic hardship when it is easier to attack and scapegoat a minority than to acknowledge the broader issues at play.

What should we do instead..? "O, KJK, yes, let me pull up a chair and hear more about these horrible trans people who don't deserve jobs or homes to live in. You clearly have valuable points to make!' 🙄

Not wanting a man I don't know touching my body is not because I'm poor and need a scapegoat.

What about ruling them out of any jobs because 'they are lazy' and not allowing them to have rental accommodation because they are unlikely to pay rent?

KJK sentiment, obviously, not mine

See my post above.

So you're saying you're not prejudiced if you feel wholesale discrimination against certain populations in terms of their access to employment and accomodation is acceptable?

The everything corrupted refers to all GC presence on the feminist board.
It is hugely difficult to discuss ANY feminist issue on here without GCs bringing their opinion on trans women into it. And it is just that. An opinion. Those of us who disagree with you are still feminists. And quite frankly we should be working together over issues like despite legislation the pay gap is still a thing. Despite report after report after report there are serious issues with maternity care. The issue that girls in school are at far more risk from their cis-male peers than any one else. That the current PSHE/SRE consultation will result in no sex education around consent/protection until year 9. That's what I meant.
I really couldn't care less about factionalism amongst GCs. I thought this thread was about the link with TR. Who is repugnant.
And why does he do it? Because he's a sexist racist and there's a LOT of money in it. The same reason Nick Griffin did it.
You cannot reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

I also maintain that blaming Eastern European immigrants doing needed jobs for the shortage of services that is actually the fault of local and central government is bigoted.

That's why there's exemptions in the equality act.

Do you not think people can become radicalised through "social contagion"? E.g. Abu Hamza? That an ideology can manipulate and prey on people's values to warp them into something damaging?

As this thread draws to a close, I think posting on it has been one of the greatest ever wastes of my time. I must take up something more enjoyable - lying on a bed of nails or suchlike.

No.
That's what happens when you build strawmen. But nice play to the crowd.

The everything corrupted refers to all GC presence on the feminist board.
It is hugely difficult to discuss ANY feminist issue on here without GCs bringing their opinion on trans women into it

I thought that's why the boards were split though?