Pride month

[Hyperions]

Has anyone noticed a dialling down in PRIDE logos on business websites today?

When you say they want to live their life and be left alone, do they require others to pretend they are the opposite sex? To use pronouns of the opposite sex when referring to them? To use the changing facilities and toilets of the opposite sex? Because that is the opposite of wanting to be left alone. That is demanding everyone else engages with and upholds their fantasy about themselves.

It does not affect your life in any way at all if my two friends, who you have never met, have become the opposite gender to which they were born. They are good, kind and happy people. They are not trying to get other people to change genders too, or anything else that people get so het up about. Why are you so angry about the premise that sometimes people feel they were born in the wrong gender? It will continue to happen occasionally whether you like it or not.

So they uphold gendered stereotypes that harm women? Do they also use spaces designated for the opposite sex? Or require people use language of the opposite sex? Then they are absolutely causing me and others harm.

The old 'how does it affect you?' question.

How does it not affect women and girls when fully intact males with their penis and testicles (and around 92% to 97% of trans women retain their penis and testicles) are in women and girls safe single sex spaces and changerooms?

How does it not affect women and girls when fully intact males are taking girls sports medals and scholarships? Males in our rape crisis centres, and a transwoman who runs the centre (and has no counselling training at all, but did sessions with victims) said we must 'reframe our trauma' if we don't want males in the group sessions or a male counsellor.

Have you really thought this through? Or do you just think your two friends are nice guys, so that's the same for all of them?

This is about MALE vs FEMALE, and keeping female spaces for females. This might explain it better: https://archive.md/JLFJn

hi @RubyBirdy

what's gender?

Thanks in advance!

Hmm. So kinksters, weirdos and perverts have spoiled Pride and it's all straight blokes. I see. Have you got a link for that?

Neither of them are ‘fully intact males’, you are even assuming that they are male to female, which I haven’t actually stated. And having a go at me won’t change the fact that trans people have existed for years and always will exist. I don’t know why you’re talking about rape trauma centres and sports etc when you don’t know mine or even their opinions on these subjects. Jumping to conclusions and starting conversations about the safety of women and girls, which is a whole separate conversation, when I know plenty of women who have been raped and assaulted by men and none who have been assaulted by trans people, makes me feel that maybe your anger is being positioned to the wrong people? There are very complex issues and conversations surrounding safe spaces for women and sports etc, but you’re grouping everyone together as being ‘us’ and ‘them’ and doing the exact thing I raised in my original post and creating anger, hatred and causing a huge gap in opinions, pushing each side further and further away from each other and being more extreme. Trans people will always exist so society must find a way for trans people and women to all feel safe, as all decent human beings deserve to feel.

How does using the pronouns opposite to those they were born with harm you? Genuinely interested to understand what you mean by this.

I’m sure you can google this and it will explain the differences between the terms ‘gender’ and ‘biological sex’. I’m not sure why you are implying this is some kind of ‘gotcha’?

Are you asking for a link to prove that kinksters, weirdos and perverts have spoiled Pride? Or a link to prove it's all straight blokes?

If it's the latter, no one has said that it's only straight blokes who have spoiled Pride with their kink, merely that it is only blokes who have done so, some of whom are straight.

If it's the former, I'm happy to share some links with you, but you will find a plethora yourself if you simply google 'kink pride'. This one made me particularly angry:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/06/29/pride-month-kink-consent/ (The writer of this piece, who wants her children to be exposed to kink at Pride, has a trans 'wife'.)

None of the lesbian mums I know want their children to be exposed to kink...

This is a good explanation: fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

*How does demanding other people falsify their language to hide reality to uphold my fantasy, harm them?”

Try googling yourself and see if you can find a legal, non-contested and non-offensive definition of gender. We'll wait.

I genuinely don’t care about the definition of gender to be honest 😂

You don’t even know them, you don’t have to do anything 😂

I know plenty of women who have been raped and assaulted by men

Absolutely. It is men- biologically male men- who are the problem. And that remains the case whether or not they identify as women.

I'm sure many men who identify as women are very nice, as are many men who identify as men. But none of them should be accessing female-only spaces, services and sports. Nor, incidentally, should 'transmen' (women who identify as men) if they are taking testosterone.

Well that's lucky, BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ONE.

@RubyBirdy if you are discussing "gender" and treating it as more important/more relevant than someone's sex, then it's a little bit bizarre that you won't define it and claim that it's not relevant!

For me, "gender" is a collection of culturally and socially defined stereotypes, expectations, requirements placed on people according to their sex, that changes over time and location. As a feminist, I actively reject those imposed cultural norms, stereotypes and requirements as harmful to women in a male-dominated patriarchal society.

I understand that it can be stressful to try and remember to use ‘they’ and ‘them’ for example, I’ve done it myself and accidentally used ‘she’ and don’t want to be seen as being rude etc, but I think that there should be understanding on both sides and, as I said, actually both sides can be too angry and extreme imo. You’re probably not going to come across many trans people in your life, you don’t sound like you’re going to be going to pride any time soon, so I probably wouldn’t worry about it too much.

Remembering also that the census found males who identified as trans were several times more likely to commit sexual offences than other men.

Well, I googed gender: 'the male sex or the female sex, especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones, or one of a range of other identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female.'

That's clear as fucking mud!

Unlike you, I care for other women and children too.

I’m sure as there are nice men and horrible men, nice women and horrible women, there are also nice trans people and horrible trans people.
Maybe a third space/toilet/groups/sports should be created so everyone feels safe and happy? I don’t have the answers, and I’m glad I don’t have to find them and try and keep everyone happy, but I would like both women and trans people to all have the same opportunities and ‘safe spaces’, whatever that looks like.

Why do you think trans people aren’t safe using the spaces appropriate to their actual sex?

Maybe a third space/toilet/groups/sports should be created so everyone feels safe and happy?

I appreciate you may not be aware of the issues and might have missed a lot of the discussion, but these spaces etc have been trialled and in many cases rejected by transpeople because they do not provide the required validation of identity.