Pride month

[Hyperions]

Has anyone noticed a dialling down in PRIDE logos on business websites today?

Happily there's been a return to rainbow signalling Pride in LGB, the sexualities persecuted for centuries. The TQI+ are not sexualities and now that Stonewall have been told to fuck off, priorities have returned.

But, unfortunately, no school would have an LGB board in the current climate (although, hopefully, that is on its way to changing). The school, like everyone else currently, would have an LGBTQ board. Everything else the poster said indicated that it was the LGB part she was pleased about.

Oh, for pity's sake. For the final time, being gay is NOT just about who you have sex with, any more than being straight is. It's about who you fall in love with and choose to share your life with. If my wife and I never had sex again, we would still be a lesbian couple.

I thought gay and lesbian people wanted to be thought of as completely normal

The vast majority of us do; please don't tar us all with the same brush, it's really very offensive. As you will gather from this thread, and many other sources online, there are many, many gay people (especially lesbians) who do not feel represented by Pride.

"Oh, for pity's sake. For the final time, being gay is NOT just about who you have sex with, any more than being straight is. It's about who you fall in love with and choose to share your life with. If my wife and I never had sex again, we would still be a lesbian couple."

@IdgieThreadgoodeIsMyHeroine it's so crude and homophobic isn't it? Constantly reducing us to sex as if that's all we are. While they get to have relationships and share their lives with another person.

And actually @AlisonDonut: what do you think of the uber pornification and perversion of heterosexuality? I for one can't seem to watch a single show that doesn't depict some form of disgusting sexual act, rape, harassment etc. that focuses on opposite sex interactions. And what about the violent and degrading porn industry? Do you feel that is representative of your sexuality? If not, why not?

After all, if you're judging all lesbian and gay people based upon the actions of a small subset of actors then we can judge you based upon the actions of a very significant minority of your group can't we? Maybe deal with your own perverts first eh?

I'm not sure what you think you are "pulling me up" on here, because I very specifically mentioned people talking about their family lives in a normal way.

Yes, we all know that partners in families are probably sexually active together and are in love and all the rest of it. No one is saying they should just keep quiet about it, and tbh I am getting really pissed off at people saying that is what is being said when pretty much everyone has clarified that they that they do not mean that at all.

I don't know if people are reading what they expect to hear or are being purposefully disingenuous or what.

What I and I think some others are saying is that there is a huge, gaping gap between, on the one hand, wanting all sexual orientations to be treated pretty much the same socially, and legally, and in the way people think about them.

And on the other, making sexuality a major focus point for identity. And not just in a way that is saying, treat people nicely, it's ok to be gay or lesbian, but actually in a way that reifies it into a very solid social category. And, in the context of identity politics, which this idea is part of, it will come with all kinds of social and even special policy considerations. You are solidifying the existence of sexuality tribes.

It's very similar to the way that I'd pol reifies race and ultimately creates a modern version of race essentialism, with all it's nasty consequences.

I would argue, and you may of course disagree, that while initially most Pride marches were about things like legal and social equality, that is no longer the underlying ideology. It's very much about sexuality as identity. This is why you get all the stuff about drag queens, and flags, and so on. It's an attempt to create the elements of a separate social identity, even though many gay and lesbian people have no interest in that stuff.

Which imo is actually opposed to the possibility of it becoming a socially normal, non-notable, thing. Essentializing identities is a type of tribalism, at best, when it isn't an attempt to create a kind of political faction, and it's negative for society as a whole, and very likely to turn ugly eventually. Whether it is race or sexuality or something else.

Disagree with that analysis if you think it's wrong, but stop with the claims that it is about saying people have to shut up about their normal family life.

Since I specifically said it was totally normal for everyone to make that kind of statement, I really don't know what you are on about.

I really don’t have a problem with pride for LGB. It’s the T part as you say.

I'm still not getting how some seem oblivious to the fact that just because you and others don't have a problem with the LGB letters, doesn't mean that's not where everyone's going to stop too
Some would be happy to then scissor off the B..
Maybe then the G.
Etc.
They're all expendable in some eyes.

Thousands of lesbian and gay people go to PRIDE events and marches around the UK.

I'd definitely not be up for a heterosexual perverted kink march through a city centre with anyone in rubber dog suits being led by other people in leather or pvc dog suits, resplendent with ball gags no!

I'd love to attend a pride parade, even though I'm straight. But I'd have to be gay for it to be fun.

Define "transphobia", @EndoEnd ? Is that womens rights you are referring to? In which case I think most of us would say that femphobia and misogyny is far greater a global issue than transphobia is.

"I'd definitely not be up for a heterosexual perverted kink march through a city centre with anyone in rubber dog suits being led by other people in leather or pvc dog suits, resplendent with ball gags no!"

@AlisonDonut I hate to break it to you but those are mostly heterosexual men who have co-opted Pride so they belong in your camp I'm afraid. They belong to the "kink" group which has nothing to do with sexual orientation. Nice try though. And interesting that you've made no attempt to answer the rest of my questions.

"Since I specifically said it was totally normal for everyone to make that kind of statement, I really don't know what you are on about."

@TempestTost because you attempted to make out like lesbian and gay people go on and on about their sexuality and "elevate" it beyond importance. Most of us don't do that. Most of us aren't walking around going on about sex all the time. But our sexuality naturally comes up or is inferred in conversation just like yours is, and if you don't believe you're elevating your sexuality when you do the mundane activities of family life, then you need to accept that we aren't doing that either.

And just like the millions and millions of heterosexual people who make sex the locus of their identity and go on and on about sex all the time, there are of course, homosexual people who do that too. That does not mean you get to tar all of us with the same brush-that's my point. Because doing that makes you homophobic.

I don't judge all heterosexual people and heterosexuality based upon all the various disgusting, abusive and exploitative representations I see of heterosexuality every single day in the media, in the news, on the street etc., so you shouldn't judge all homosexual people by what you may see a couple of times a year at a Pride march.

Surely you're aware that a LOT of the perverts at Pride marches are, in fact, heterosexual men?

You actually did not specifically say that. Your exact words were:

Most people go about their daily lives and while family life will get some mention, most of the time sexuality won't except in the context of dating.

I assumed that you were using 'sexuality' to mean 'sexual orientation', which is how it is most often used. My point was that it's impossible for those with a partner to talk about family life without mentioning your sexual orientation- you do that as soon as you use pronouns for your partner, or refer to them as your husband or wife. Yet somehow, it is only seen as being notable when gay people do it.

Edit: Here, you are very clearly using the word 'sexuality' to mean 'sexual orientation', for example:

You are solidifying the existence of sexuality tribes.

It certainly bloody feels that way

because you attempted to make out like lesbian and gay people go on and on about their sexuality and "elevate" it beyond importance.

No, I didn't say anything like that. I literally said that I did not mean those kinds of conversations. And I specifically said that many gay and lesbian people have no interest in sexual I'd pol.

If you are going to imagine whole cloth things I haven't written I can't do much with that.

Pro-tip: That's why the word "queer" has been reinvented, it allows straight people to join in with the fun.

I am not sure how else to say this. I am saying everyone talks about their families and such, and that this is not what is considered to be talking about their sexuality.

But frankly, none of what is under discussion is really much to do with people mentioning their sexuality, it's about sexual identarianism.

ANd the idea that there aren't plenty of gay kink at Pride is a little bit of an eyeroll. That's like saying drag queens these days include women and straight men. There's some truth to it, but It's not like the kink stated with those people, or they were unwelcomed.

The argument made, and believed by many, is that to object to public kink at Pride or elsewhere is homophobic, because kink is an integral part of gay (and I do mean male) sexuality.

Of course many people don't believe that in the gay community, but they largely are absenting themselves or were never interested in Pride. That ideology is still centered at Pride.

I'm not a heterosexual man, sorry. Nowhere near my camp.

I'm not for a second saying that kink at Pride is only demonstrated by straight people. I AM saying it is only demonstrated by male people, both gay and straight, however they identify.

Lesbians are not the problem.

I have two trans friends, both of whom transitioned over 20 years ago before all the trans panic and madness set in. It’s scary that they are less accepted now than they were 20 years ago. They are human beings who just want to live their life and be left alone. The more outraged people get about trans people the louder the younger generation are going to push back and shout about it, and the more vehement and extreme the opinions on both sides will become. There will always be a small group of people who exist that are trans. I don’t understand why it’s spiralled into this huge gender debate with teenagers questioning their gender and people suggesting trans people shouldn’t be allowed in pride. As always, there’s two extremes and the sensible point is actually in the middle, if everyone could calm down and see through all the ridiculous panic. Happy pride month everyone, nothing but love to all my gay and trans friends.

😂😂😂