Party of Women

[ChristinaXYZ]

KJK is appealing for people to stand as candidates, and to be agents, helpers, canvasers etc. She is also gardening at Give Send Go - Party Of Women Election Campaign. I know she knows PoW won't get anywhere but I hope she makes a few waves, takes a few votes and maybe by doing that disrupts what might have been a smooth election for any complacent ignorers of women's rights.

https://www.partyofwomen.org/

Not make a blanket statement saying "transitioning children is abuse" as this catches a number of parents and professionals trying to do the best for a particular child in challenging circumstances.

If you look back in history plenty of well-meaning people did things we now regard as abusive in good faith.

Which bit of "transitioning children" do you consider not abuse?
Telling them they were born in the wrong body? Dressing them up as the opposite sex and telling them that means they are the opposite sex? Telling their classmates to pretend they are the opposite sex? Telling them a natural puberty is something to avoid at all costs?

Neither of those lines are right. Free or not.

And no one cares bar you two about a line

@testing987654321

‘Which bit of "transitioning children" do you consider not abuse?
Telling them they were born in the wrong body? Dressing them up as the opposite sex and telling them that means they are the opposite sex? Telling their classmates to pretend they are the opposite sex? Telling them a natural puberty is something to avoid at all costs?’

Exactly.

Or maybe telling children there are 72 genders, when they said there are only 2 sexes, man and woman. Or teaching them about oral and anal sex, and being shown graphic pictures of gender reassignment surgery? Is that ok?

….and if you went the website you would have little idea whether some, all or any of those were what the PoW was campaigning for. Which was sort of the point.

Is there a point to any of this other than a new party whose founder you dislike doesn't have a very fleshed out website yet?

Is there a reason why we shouldn't discuss whether a party that is calling for new members, candidates & donations is clear about its policies? I mean some people got quite aerated that a thread on the PoW wasn't discussing the party. Now it seems that is also frowned upon.

You can discuss what you want. I was trying to figure out if the questioning was masterfully leading us to some great gotcha moment, or whether you were literally just moaning about websites.

I would think any potential candidates KJK might enlist would be familiar with her and her aims already and not need them spelt out on the website.

I was thinking this. She might use other channels and rely less on a website. She seems to do well on X for example

Just click on 'about us' to find out. I struggle to see the bloody problem, frankly.

Not defamatory as not aimed at an individual.

^Kellie Jay Keen set up Party of Women so that people could safely say.....transitioning children is abuse".

So if I'm a parent of a trans identifying child, minding my business, someone can "safely" walk up to me and tell me "transitioning children is abuse".

You don't see a problem with that?

Similarly if I was a trans man, out and about minding my own business, someone can "safely" walk up to me and tell me "no man has a vagina".

I mean,no thanks. Its hardly adding much benefit to society and that's her core message. Nothing about policy. Nothing about women's safe spaces, sports, prisons etc. Just purely "people can safely say....".

Which BTW is actually already possible in most contexts thanks to the bravery of Maya Forstater.

You said it's defamatory. It's not, as it's not aimed at an individual the way she's saying it. That's the point I responded to. Now here you are, expanding your point again, as if what I said relates to all the new points you've made!

And free speech means that yes, you can say things that offend others (there is no right to not be offended). However, if this is deemed / judged to be hate speech, then there can be a problem with it.

It's also true to say that no man has a vagina, regardless of whether the transman agrees with that or not. It's biological fact. They might not like that fact, but it's true. I can't imagine why you'd randomly walk up to a transman to say that though (the only transman I know personally knows that you can't change sex, and I wouldn't initiate that type of conversation anyway!).

Read what I wrote again:
"I don't personally think people should be able to go round calling other people "child abusers" with impunity. That goes against our principles of basic justice and is potentially defamatory too."

I didn't say she was defamatory. I meant she is encouraging people to potentially be defamatory to others, by saying it should be "safe" to say transitioning children is abuse.

I can't imagine why you'd randomly walk up to a transman to say that though

Someone transphobic would most definitely love to be able to "safely" say things like that to a trans person's face.

And that is the EXTRA point you made after you'd simply said it was defamatory, which is what I responded to initially!

I don't need to read your posts again. Once is more than enough!

You’re right it’s not defamatory

Nah. She said “I don't personally think people should be able to go round calling other people "child abusers" with impunity. That goes against our principles of basic justice and is potentially defamatory too.” It’s very clear that potential defamation refers to people going round calling other people abusers. Which by definition would be aimed at individuals

Thank you!

Adults actually harming dc due to gender ideology is more concerning than that wording

So the KJK detractors are taking the text...

Kellie-Jay Keen founded Party Of Women to make sure that people can safely say
No woman has a penis
No man has a vagina
There is no such thing as "non-binary"
And "transitioning" children is abuse

...and reading it as a call to somehow exempt these phrases from existing laws on harassment. Whereas the more obvious meaning is that she wants to end the taboo on stating these things, as currently many people can't say them safely, as evidenced by the frequent need for security and/or police presence wherever KJK hosts events.

What she needs is a clearer website. She can have that advice for free

@BackToLurk And I'm sure she'd greet your constructive criticism with all the warm feeling it was delivered with.

Saying someone has the right to say something about someone else is not the same as saying they have the right to walk up to them in the street and say it. If that was done in an aggressive way it may well constitute a common assault. Saying it as an opinion in a podcast, or standing on a soap box at a public meeting would be quite different. Everyone should refrain from putting words into other people's mouths that they have not said. That is just as bad as lying about them.

I hope KJK condemn this absolute fuckwittery. Poor JP.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

https://x.com/Haggis_UK/status/1797533058671030327