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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Party of Women

154 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 29/05/2024 15:42

KJK is appealing for people to stand as candidates, and to be agents, helpers, canvasers etc. She is also gardening at Give Send Go - Party Of Women Election Campaign. I know she knows PoW won't get anywhere but I hope she makes a few waves, takes a few votes and maybe by doing that disrupts what might have been a smooth election for any complacent ignorers of women's rights.

https://www.partyofwomen.org/

Party Of Women | POW

This is the home page for Party Of Women. Join us in the fight for women's rights.

https://www.partyofwomen.org

OP posts:
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11
AgileLurker · 30/05/2024 18:26

Leafstamp · 30/05/2024 17:40

Let me re-phrase...

Do you think the belief that gender identity exists and is of equal (or greater) importance as biological sex passes the Grainger criteria?

My thinking is that the belief someone is a different race/ethnicity to their actual race/ethnicity or that able-bodied people can be disabled- would count as just an opinion, without a cohesive belief system and associated activities.

There would need to be an accompanying belief in ‘past lives’ or ‘astral’ swapping, something like that, to explain the phenomenon- ‘God made a mistake’ for example and a back story to make a claim somebody had ‘swapped’ - like someone said a word they couldn’t know as a toddler and had always asked where their ‘real mum is’, etc. They would also need to do something like cook only the foods from that country too.

AdamRyan · 30/05/2024 18:46

I would like to know what people think voting for/standing for PoW will achieve.
So far I've only seen KJK saying she's hoping to have the influence Farage had. She seems unaware that 1) Farage was building on the work of the likes of Robert Kilroy Silk and it had taken years and 2) Europe was a very contested topic in Conservative circles so there was a vote base there.

It's going to be very hard for PoW to break through with all the other independents standing. Especially now she's not standing against Starmer and LRM is also not standing.

Underthinker · 30/05/2024 19:08

AdamRyan · 30/05/2024 18:46

I would like to know what people think voting for/standing for PoW will achieve.
So far I've only seen KJK saying she's hoping to have the influence Farage had. She seems unaware that 1) Farage was building on the work of the likes of Robert Kilroy Silk and it had taken years and 2) Europe was a very contested topic in Conservative circles so there was a vote base there.

It's going to be very hard for PoW to break through with all the other independents standing. Especially now she's not standing against Starmer and LRM is also not standing.

If you don't think she'll get any support, why are you bothered enough to post?

thatsthewayitis · 30/05/2024 19:12

Ah but our beloved girl-mode Eddie is being touted as the replacement.
Kellie-Jay vs Izzard would be brilliant. No one is better than she at grabbing the headlines.

Having women en masse wake up and join the Party of Women would be taking back power. We're 51% of the population!

As to Labour; has Keir apologized to Rosie?

BezMills · 30/05/2024 19:15

Has. He. Fuck.

Camdenish · 30/05/2024 19:24

ChrisPadley · 30/05/2024 14:32

Kellie Jay Keen announced she will be standing as Party of Women candidate against woman-MP-harassing Labour candidate Lloyd Russell-Moyne in his Brighton Kemptown constiuency. Soon afterwards the Labour party suspended him from the party so that he cannot be a candidate. Allegedly this is because of a complaint made against him over something that he did long ago. But, is this a co-incidence or does Labour fear he would lose too many votes to Kellie and they need a candidate with a better attitude to women? Are they hoping to steal her thunder?

Was she going to stand against Keir Starner? That’s what I’ve been hoping and expecting.

PriOn1 · 30/05/2024 19:49

Leafstamp · 30/05/2024 17:40

Let me re-phrase...

Do you think the belief that gender identity exists and is of equal (or greater) importance as biological sex passes the Grainger criteria?

It falls down in that it does not attain any level of cogency. It is, in fact, entirely illogical. There is no evidence that gender identity exists, whereas sex is observable fact.

Replacing something factual with something based only upon personal statements, and which can easily be falsified, is not logical.

The fact that it has gained so much ground as a belief doesn’t change the fact that it is nonsense.

TheRozzers · 30/05/2024 19:52

Interesting that the usual KJK fans haven't appeared to defend her on this thread. The silence is deafening.

BezMills · 30/05/2024 20:05

In her defence... She does have great hair and owns a surprising number of jumpsuits

AgileLurker · 30/05/2024 20:27

PriOn1 · 30/05/2024 19:49

It falls down in that it does not attain any level of cogency. It is, in fact, entirely illogical. There is no evidence that gender identity exists, whereas sex is observable fact.

Replacing something factual with something based only upon personal statements, and which can easily be falsified, is not logical.

The fact that it has gained so much ground as a belief doesn’t change the fact that it is nonsense.

It’s true, the same could be said of religion though, but religions are generally deemed WORIADS.

AgileLurker · 30/05/2024 20:28

TheRozzers · 30/05/2024 19:52

Interesting that the usual KJK fans haven't appeared to defend her on this thread. The silence is deafening.

Defend her from what?

AgileLurker · 30/05/2024 20:29

AgileLurker · 30/05/2024 20:28

Defend her from what?

I’ll answer that myself - from her usual haters.

BackToLurk · 30/05/2024 20:49

AgileLurker · 30/05/2024 20:27

It’s true, the same could be said of religion though, but religions are generally deemed WORIADS.

Religions don't have to meet the Grainger criteria, only philosophical beliefs. You have protection to believe any mad old shit if it's a religion.

Justcats · 30/05/2024 20:55

Why is fund raising allowed on this board? I'm pretty sure links to go fund me type fund raising would be deleted else where on MN

Ketzele · 30/05/2024 21:13

I'm astonished that so many people don't see the gap between their own opinion and the legal/policy framework we should be fighting for. I don't disagree with those four lines of KJKs but I would never vote for her because she doesn't stand for a liberal, pluralistic society in which human rights and free speech are equally accessible to all.

Fetishistic or predatory behaviour in public spaces is not OK regardless of who does it, and can be tackled as behaviours rather than identities. We can't assert that trans people are inherently a safeguarding risk without robust evidence.

Every tool we fight for can also be used against us in a shifting social climate.

BezMills · 30/05/2024 21:22

We can't assert that trans people are inherently a safeguarding risk without robust evidence

Obviously true. Transwomen are not being risk-profiled as male because they are trans, but because they are male.

EasternStandard · 30/05/2024 21:24

TheRozzers · 30/05/2024 19:52

Interesting that the usual KJK fans haven't appeared to defend her on this thread. The silence is deafening.

What how is this thread ‘silence’?

Sloejelly · 30/05/2024 21:44

One thing KJK (and other POW candidates) can do as a candidate is send out campaign materials. They just one mailing for free either unaddressed to every address, or addressed to every voter (they get a copy of the full electoral role, not the edited one). Though they have to provide the leaflets, presumably in addressed envelopes if being sent to individual voters.

AdamRyan · 30/05/2024 22:17

She said she would but then changed her mind 🤷‍♀️

Sloejelly · 30/05/2024 22:22

POW being able to send POW campaign material to every voter in the constituency will stick in the craw of TRAs!

AgileLurker · 30/05/2024 22:54

BackToLurk · 30/05/2024 20:49

Religions don't have to meet the Grainger criteria, only philosophical beliefs. You have protection to believe any mad old shit if it's a religion.

I seem to recall there was some dispute over whether being a ‘Jedi’ could be classified as a religion.

Regarding gender identity- I think it resembles a religion rather than a philosophical belief and that would be the only grounds on it being WORIADS, since it relies on physically unprovable ‘essences’ and things akin to miracles, transubstantiation, faith, saints, martyrs, symbols and so on - and belief in it can’t be found through reasoning and evidence alone.

AgileLurker · 30/05/2024 23:03

Justcats · 30/05/2024 20:55

Why is fund raising allowed on this board? I'm pretty sure links to go fund me type fund raising would be deleted else where on MN

The website is not a crowdfunder like crowd justice. It’s a website. Just like the Labour Party website, which people can link to.

AgileLurker · 31/05/2024 09:25

It seems the haters have started another thread to waste the time and energy of PoW supporters.

BezMills · 31/05/2024 10:40

The only time one can waste is one's own.

But yeah, if that thread was a sofa, I'd be embarrassed to leave it out for the council to collect.

AgileLurker · 31/05/2024 11:15

BezMills · 31/05/2024 10:40

The only time one can waste is one's own.

But yeah, if that thread was a sofa, I'd be embarrassed to leave it out for the council to collect.

Thanks for the wake up call! I got sucked it!