NHS challenged by women forced to share changing room with transwoman

[MrsOvertonsWindow]

The Daily Mail reporting on a group of 36 nurses complaining that they're forced to share an open plan changing room with a man who claims to be a woman, behaves inappropriately, is sexually active (trying for a baby with his partner) yet is given access to women undressing as he claims to be trans.
Following two formal written complaints where the response was that they needed to be be "more inclusive', 'broaden their mindset' and 'be educated and attend training" six of the nurses are now going to an employment tribunal claiming sexual harassment and sexual discrimination.
Note the article uses he pronouns.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

Whaaat? I'm.leaving nxt yr. Going early. Need to be gone before this madness comes to my.place.

I hope they win. The Sheffield Trust case worries me too. It seems like a no-brainer that they ought to win, but it’s never certain.

There is, of course, the factor that not winning in a lower court can thrust cases into a higher court and then they become relevant where precedent is important. It is a real shame the Sheffield Trust didn’t push on with its case, but this time it’s the NHS who are the respondent, so hopefully the nurses will push this all the way.

I hope some of them find us, because if they need funding, we are here. This sounds like a really important case, where we are really getting to the nitty gritty around rights and changing rooms.

Me too. But not having good enough legal representation is a worry. GC feminists have had some shit-hot lawyers and CLC have been accused of being more ideological than competent. Losing what should be an open and shut case due to legal incompetence would set back women's rights in the NHS as both employees and patients. so I wish it was a GC group bringing the case.

This. It was devastating when the NHS lost that other case. Very similar set of circumstances. I wonder if it’s the same hospital? It set women’s rights to same-sex changing facilities right back. The NHS too scared or ignorant to use the single sex exceptions and thinking gender reassignment takes priority over sex. Utterly repugnant situation.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11027471/amp/Trans-NHS-worker-wins-discrimination-case-confronted-underwear.html

Absolutely unacceptable.

Fully behind all the nurses.

This does illustrate the issue with the 'tiny number' assertions - one man's behaviour here is impacting on dozens of women.

Yes.

www.heraldscotland.com/news/16311379.schools-forget-girls-rush-adopt-pro-trans-guidance-campaigners-claim-christian-group-threatens-legal-action/

That case seemed to rest on deciding that his manager asking him whether he was naked below the waist in the changing room was inappropriate and the judge deciding that a woman wouldn't be asked the same question? Plus alleging that angry women were discussing him in a hostile way after he was allowed to strip in the women's changing rooms? Plus a lot of other issues that were dismissed.
A shame the verdict wasn't challenged.

I don't really understand why people seem to find it difficult to understand the differences between sex and gender. You change in the room you have the biological parts of.

And while we're at it, little boys shouldn't be in women's changing rooms or toilets either.

This does illustrate the issue with the 'tiny number' assertions - one man's behaviour here is impacting on dozens of women.

Always the way isn't it? One man 150 victims.

Not in mine it isn’t.
What a sweeping statement.

One man being his "authentic self" 150 victims

If your union knows what a woman is and upholds women's rights to privacy, safety and dignity from men in relevant circumstances, please share. There are countless women desperate to find unions not captured by gender woo woo.

A real shame. The NHS really cocked that situation right up didn't they? Not only could they have utilised the single-sex exceptions in the first instance and didn't, they then didn't challenge a ruling that was probably wrong in law and now two years on exactly the same scenario is happening again. And I very much doubt this is an isolated case either.

And thank you nurses for speaking up, and journalists and posters who continue to raise awareness of these situations, that simply shouldn’t occur.

But what even is a "real trans woman"?

A trans woman is just a male person who says they are a woman. There are no other criteria.

This is so appalling. What a disgusting man. The NHS has gone completely mad and it frightens me so much. How the fuck is this even happening?

I can't believe what I have just read .

I am also terrified that this toxic harmful ideology has taken grip in such a widespread manner.

They should sue their fucking union too! I admit I thought the scolding would be for the DM link. Iirc regarding the previous case, the bulk of the bloke's allegations were unsubstantiated, no other witnesses, no-one corroborated or admitted saying them.

Concerning this case, perhaps he could use the same changing room as the HR person?

Oh, and one other thing...this never happens.

The situation described in the article! That poor woman, if he's that blatant with his colleagues I dread to think what he tries with the patients.

if he's that blatant with his colleagues I dread to think what he tries with the patients.

Yep.

if he's that blatant with his colleagues I dread to think what he tries with the patients.

Surely a safeguarding issue has been raised and steps will be taken to ensure he's not got access to women patients?

While all is investigated at least? That's surely protocol?

This is absolutely a 'real transwoman'. Just as much a woman as every other transwoman.

Well, Mridul Wadhwa is still in his job...

The previous case involved a Sheffield hospital and the new case is against an NHS trust in the North East.

The facts of the two cases are similar but the causes of action are different.

The TW was bullied and therefore discriminated against because disadvantaged (vis-a-vis changing facilities) compared to employees of the opposite legal sex and non-trans employees of the same legal sex.

In the new case, the claimants are discriminated against because disadvantaged (vis-a-vis changing facilities) compared to employees of the opposite legal sex. Namely, the male nurses, who don't have to put up with a woman in their changing room, and wouldn't be frightened by it if they did (leaving the religious angle out for the moment). Women are more disadvantaged by mixed changing rooms than men, in other words.

If they win, the TW still needs a changing space in order not to be discriminated against. A third space, or we re-educate everyone to accept TW in the men's space.

It sounds as if this TW doesn't have a GRC. If they did, their legal sex would be female, their birth sex would be confidential, and I wonder what evidence the court would require in order to demonstrate that their presence is or could be distressing to females. (It doesn't have to be sex-related per se - the comparison we are making is between the frightened and disgusted women in one room and the carefree men in the other.)

That would bring in some very sensitive subjects like genital surgery, passing privilege, and whether a woman is justified in rejecting the presence of somebody as male based only on body type (if she can't see his dna, gonads, or genitals). The body type thing feeds into the whole pædiatric treatment row so is also sensitive.

I wish there could be a case with a GRC just so we can see these topics thrashed out.