Advice please: Dreading TRA friend's visit

[BetsyBobbin]

My husband has a friend from school who's coming to stay in our city this bank holiday. Although I'm friendly with her she was never my actual friend so I never knew her well.

She'll be here for four days and is staying with a gay couple whom she's friends with and who are very much part of the blue hair/alphabet soup brigade as far as I could see (she created a WhatsApp group and included all of us in, some brief conversations have been had). Outings as a large group have been organised.

She started following me on social media recently and I followed her back just to be gobsmacked by what I saw. Yes, you can guess, all the TWAW stuff.

Now, this woman is an educated person, works as a public defender and has an eight year old daughter and I just don't understand for the life of me how can someone who who works in law and has a daughter could be so captured like that (I do have theories but never mind that now).

Now, I'm staunchly GC. Having said that, I don't want to cause any drama and I'm hoping that those outings will be finished sooner than you can say "JK Rowling". BUT, if anything remotely TRA related is brought up I don't trust myself to remain silent.

I'm obviously not changing anyone's mind in a brief conversation but is there anything that I can say that could at least plant a seed of doubt in her head? I really don't want to get into long arguments trying to explain autogynephilia and what could happen to her daughter in a changing room but like I said, I don't trust myself to be quiet either.

I'm dreading this whole situation, send help please.

Well yes, I don't think the OP plans to be charging in with 'ha! Listen to this!' But why should op smile and nod if the friend who must be aware of ops beliefs starts on TRA chat?

Are you hosting in your home or meeting up in a public place? Former is harder, but in a pub or restaurant, you can just say a friendly hello and ensure you're not seated so close that you are the main conversation source. I'd not engage her at all on gender ideology. There's a million other topics of conversation that you can find common ground on. I've no idea why anyone would focus in on a belief that you don't share. Just talk about other things. She thinks something that you don't. Focus on the food, holidays, movies you've seen, novels you've read, footy matches, what her daughter is into....its not hard to keep chat light and friendly. If she starts on a GI pathway, redirect or go to the bar for another drink and sit with someone else when you come back, to chat with them. It doesn't have to be a fight. Time and place, both wrong.

That's a very interesting approach actually.
Say I had a previously un-met scientologist coming for dinner.
In that case, I wouldn't be bringing anything up unless they did, and then I would probably ask genuinely curious, open, fascinated questions: "That's interesting! So you believe X? And in your belief system, what do you believe about X? How did you come to X?" Etc.
I have had this a couple of times having met some Jehova's witnesses in social situations- and only when they have brought it up. I didn't feel the need to challenge them, I was just genuinely fascinated and curious as their beliefs were just so far from mine.
When asked by one, in assumption that I must agree on a particular point (that I absolutely didn't- it seemed utterly bonkers to me!) I was able to just laugh and say "Oh! I don't see it that way at all! But I guess that's because I have such a different world view to you! I see it this way...."
It was easy, because I really wasn't very aware of what Jehova's Witnesses believe- so it was a genuine curiosity (a not-faux naive version of Louis Theroux maybe).

It's alot more difficult with GI as you are going into it with existing knowledge.

But, its still a very useful approach, I think.

This. I recently found out that one of my friends is a flat Earther (another friend who is flat-Earth-agnostic told me this). The "FE-agnostic" friend I had an interesting and respectful discussion with about why I don't believe the Earth is flat (In spite of my inner voice being more like WHAT THE...?!). I don't think I'll bring it up with my other friend, it feels pointless!

She's an anxiety producing cultish proselytiser. I've no idea why on earth either of you are bothering with her. It's irrelevant who's known her a few years. Life is too short.

You wont change her mind... but you can expand yours. Listening to other opinions, especially ones you don't believe in, can be educational and help to enforce your own argument.

She wont be able to change your mind - but if you give her airspace she will tangle herself up in nonsense. It's the same with anti vaxxers - they have all the replies but their argument is fundamentally flawed so you don't really need to say anything!

I'd keep my distance from her tbh. It's pointless conversing on the subject with her and I'd have problems being in her company as the subject is bound to come up ( they can't keep their mouths shut )

How would you feel if she was also discussing on a forum how to plant a seed in YOUR head?

Let her have her beliefs ffs.

either go along and don't compromise your beliefs by saying or agreeing with any of her twaddle or just don't go to any of the meet-ups, get out of the WA group and unfollow her on Social media (and block)

@redalex261 - just ordered that book!

I think it’d be quite easy to get them to dig their own grave if they try to draw you into to those conversations.

As a rational person you’re far more likely to keep your cool and not stamp and flounce if someone disagrees with you. You’ll be fine!!!

I'd also think about getting rid on social media after the visit is over. Just quietly disengage if you want to. However, you may actually enjoy her company when GI is off the table, so be prepared to actually like her, just not her beliefs.

TBF the friend's belief is ultimately responsible for maiming thousands of confused children and young adults so it's not exactly equivalent.

But vaccines are actually science.

This is just letting people live the way they want to live and it has zero impact on you.

You could be paranoid about getting attacked by an xl bully, or being knifed in the street by someone who has untreated mental health issues, or being involved in a terrorist attack, or swimming in sewage, but you've chosen to be paranoid about this.

I've just had my niece to stay. I did try to ask open questions and put my point of view gently, but unfortunately was just met with teary eyed 'but they are women if they say so'.

There was no reasoning and tbh, I now think less of my niece.
I thought she was more intelligent than that.

Did you say, "I thought you were more intelligent than that"?

Good grief, are some people still pretending this shit has no impact on wider society?

I challenge you to fly to Fiji and find that young woman who was denied her chance to represent her country at the Olympics by Laurel bloody Hubbard and tell her this has no impact on her.

Aye,'living the way they want to live' would be fine if it didn't trample all over the rights of others to do the same thing.

Have the conversation then you never have to see her again. Sorted!

Haha. No. I was already being met by tears for giving very gentle, reasoned arguments on why it wasn't fair on women to expect them to lose out on places and medals in sport. Or on women who do not want mixed sex changing rooms etc.

There was no reasoning. She is at university and has 2 female friends there who are NB or think they're male.
The friends are actually quite vulnerable and unhappy and she just sees that.
No wider picture.

I honestly fear that the lack of critical thinking skills in this generation is a bigger threat to the future of humanity than climate change.

Have people forgotten how to be around others with different views these days?

The TQ+ lobby certainly have.

The Scientologist analogy is helpful - but the difference is CAMHS aren't teaching teenagers how to clear their aura of therians.

Had to look up Therian as never heard of it.

Helpful info below to answer any questions:

In general, furries are individuals who say they are furries. Therians are individuals who believe they are not completely human and instead identify as a species of non-human animal. Otherkin are individuals who believe they are not completely human and, instead identify as a mythical or fantasy-based being.