Advice please: Dreading TRA friend's visit

[BetsyBobbin]

My husband has a friend from school who's coming to stay in our city this bank holiday. Although I'm friendly with her she was never my actual friend so I never knew her well.

She'll be here for four days and is staying with a gay couple whom she's friends with and who are very much part of the blue hair/alphabet soup brigade as far as I could see (she created a WhatsApp group and included all of us in, some brief conversations have been had). Outings as a large group have been organised.

She started following me on social media recently and I followed her back just to be gobsmacked by what I saw. Yes, you can guess, all the TWAW stuff.

Now, this woman is an educated person, works as a public defender and has an eight year old daughter and I just don't understand for the life of me how can someone who who works in law and has a daughter could be so captured like that (I do have theories but never mind that now).

Now, I'm staunchly GC. Having said that, I don't want to cause any drama and I'm hoping that those outings will be finished sooner than you can say "JK Rowling". BUT, if anything remotely TRA related is brought up I don't trust myself to remain silent.

I'm obviously not changing anyone's mind in a brief conversation but is there anything that I can say that could at least plant a seed of doubt in her head? I really don't want to get into long arguments trying to explain autogynephilia and what could happen to her daughter in a changing room but like I said, I don't trust myself to be quiet either.

I'm dreading this whole situation, send help please.

How on earth is that homophobic? Its not a defining characteristic of someone who's gay is it?

I'd probably just leave a JK Rowling novel lying on the table casually and leave it to her to bring it up.

Or Helen Joyce if you want to be more direct.

My prepared simple shut down will be something like, I don't like identity politics. If pressed further will just shrug my shoulders.

I'm not good at confrontation and being socially anxious, I will fluff any lines that are too clever like the glorious stuff on here.

I have it ready in case the TRA at work ever says anything. When he was talking about JKR I just pulled a 😬 face and went about my business.

She twigged pretty quickly that I was only playing dumb

I think your posts are great, it's extremely hard to be convincing at playing dumb on a topic if:

• You know a lot about the subject, ie more than the average person does

• They know a lot about the subject to know how much you know that you wouldn't know if you really were clueless

• You're not an Oscar worthy actor

I tend to say something like, 'I see things differently' if/when I am being pressed to engage- but then move the subject on to something different. If they come back to it, I'd say that I'd rather not discuss this right now.

Perhaps try and focus on what unites you and the others and guide the interactions towards this?

She probably has a thread somewhere on reddit, dreading her weekend with her friend's wife who so captured by TERF ideology ...

Wow. Talk about jumping to assumptions. There's exactly zero to suggest OP has "an issue with gay people" - are you always this narrow-minded and bigoted towards other people? If so, you forgot asking when she stopped beating her wife (/children/dog/cat.)

I would avoid the topic but if she insists on bringing it up, I would say something like "sorry, but I would rather not have any homophobic discourse in this house". Put her on the back foot before she accuses you!

It's best to ignore people who build strawmen arguments. They try to derail threads like this, where the OP has every right to discuss her concerns.

She's a guest and an old friend of your H. Be civil and polite. Don't deliberately seek out arguments or try to provoke her by leaving books lying around, that's just shitty petty behaviour.

If the topic comes up, just say you disagree but refuse to get into an argument (a PP had a really good post).

It's supremely ironic that this thread is half full of people saying "the blue haired cult can never leave well enough alone" and the other half saying "leave these books out, how naughty" etc.

This is good advice, OP.

@Cazpar

I'll leave what books I want where I like in my own house. The OP wants to engage with her, so it's a way to open up the conversation.

What sort of open questions would you ask?

My stock line will only ever be 'nothing you can say will make me think that transitioning gay, lesbian and autistic kids and making them sterile with off book cancer drugs or putting rapists into women's prisons is a good thing so you may as well give up now'.

If you're deliberately leaving things around to provoke a guest in your own house, it's shitty petty behaviour.

OP says she wants to open the conversation up, she doesn't need your approval @Cazpar

OP said " I don't want to cause any drama".

Leaving books around to try and anger / upset / provoke a guest = causing drama.

To be honest, I love this sort of situation. They always think they have a gotcha, but haven’t thought about the vulnerable people who suffer from this nonsense. I like the look of dawning realisation on their smug face, usually becise they suss that I can’t and won’t be shamed for knowing that harm is being done to all sorts of people. I do it politely and have yet to be punched or sacked. I’m sure that’ll come, but I think it is important to have as many conversations about this stuff as possible. It’s the only way to fix it.

It's always one 'side' being told to be civil and polite isn't it?
Don't disagree.. smile and nod
... #bekind

You aren't going to change her mind at all, so engage minimally by just saying things like "I think it's a little bit more complicated than that," or "I don't really like identity politics, it makes people so aggressive and we lose all nuance from difficult subjects."

Do not get drawn on whether or not TWAW, but instead focus on whether people should be allowed to discuss it/have different opinions.

OP's H's friend isn't here. OP is. If the friend were here I'd be saying the exact same thing.

Well said.

I don't disagree and it is infuriating, but I think context is important. This is a friend of the OP's husband who it sounds like he doesn't see very often, so in that situation my priority would be him enjoying a friend's visit, not trying to win a debate over someone who will almost certainly be deaf to any attempts to put across the side of reality and common sense anyway. Pick your battles.

I'd treat it in exactly the same way as if someone was visiting who was a Scientologist, say. Or a member of any extreme and evangelical religious cult.