Emma Barnett and Gillian Keegan.

[heldinadream]

Today prog R4 now - Emma holding GK to account!
16/05/24 8.45 been going on about 10 minutes really worth listening to!

I don't see how some men being fooled into believing a man is a woman is any proof that a man can be confident that he would 'pass' in a womans space?

"How do you know nobody was aware?"

Over 20 years watching it, and never any sign of recognition whatsoever. Women acting completely uninhibited. They clearly didn't, and still have no idea, and no harm or embarrassment has been caused.

But whatever, if it's so absolutely objected to, how is it actually going to be resolved? Not how would you LIKE it resolved, but how WILL it be resolved?

I can't see either the equality act or the gra being repealed. Labour won't repeal them, and they are set to be the government for the next 5 years AT LEAST. If anything, trans rights will be strengthened.

As I said this has been discussed many times over. And many of us would simply like these males to be asked to respect women and not invade our spaces, not be invited in against our will.

If men want to deceive women in order to violate their boundaries, and the women don't know, there's not much that can be done, is there.

Same old, same old.

The idea that most of these male people look, sound or appear to be genuinely women is ludicrous, to be frank.

The GRA or the EqA doesnt give men access to female only spaces. It doesn't matter if they are repealed or not for these purpose.

Why would a man risk upsetting girls by entering a space thats not designed for him?

The fact that you're only engaging with those posts where you can push an agenda tells me everything I need to know here, @24Jules

24Jules

You're not the first person to suggest that there's a significant number of transwomen who a) think they pass (when most of them really don't). And b) who would deceive women in order to access their intimate spaces without a second thought.

As the saying goes. Good men stay out so that bad men stand out.

Also note the way that this conversation has been derailed onto "toilets, aren't you silly".

Men, by definition, have never entered a female only space. They don't know if women behave different while they are in there or not.

But in a way GK was right. People like her naively put trust in Stonewall and Mermaids et al as being knowledgeable, even about badly written, confusing laws. They thought of them as being serious institutions.

They thought these groups were compassionate and altruistic advisers about trans people, including children, said to be marginalised, suffering and likely to die.

Maybe decades ago. but these days, really? We pay these people to be on top of their brief.

The GRA and PC of Gender Reassignment were laws before stonewall added the T. Ive no doubt that there was lots of lobbying going on. But the concept of trans has been codified into law for years.

I think pretty much ALL trans women enter a women's toilet, to use the toilet, not to violate women's boundries or to upset women. They just want a pee or a poo, and many don't feel safe themselves in men's toilets.

I agree. With Labour about to win the coming ge with a huge majority, I don't see much changing. Starmer met Rosie Duffield MP the other day, and she reported that she didn't get any apology, which makes it pretty clear that he hasn't changed his view that trans women, are women.

Keegan and whatever she does or does not think/believe, is irrelevant. Even if she survives as an MP, she will be on the opposition benches with no influence at all.

It will be far more interesting when/if Barnett gets to interview Starmer.

The idea that most of these male people look, sound or appear to be genuinely women is ludicrous, to be frank.

You clearly haven't met any completely passable trans women. So you wouldn't know. That does not mean they do not exist, just because you or anyone else here hasn't met them.

Too many posts to engage with. Not pushing any agenda.

What agenda do you think I'm pushing then?

I think pretty much ALL trans women enter a women's toilet, to use the toilet, not to violate women's boundries or to upset women. They just want a pee or a poo, and many don't feel safe themselves in men's toilets.

The men facilities have space for them to pee. They do not need to use the women's facilities.

If men dont feel safe using mens facilities, they need to campaign to make them safer, not put themselves into a position where they are likely to distress girls and women.

It doesn't make sense as an excuse anyway - if a man wants to make another man feel unsafe whats stopping him following him into the female space?

Oh, it didn't like my link.

I just said that I was reminded of the Skirt Go Spinny (What is a woman? Wrong answers only) video and linked to it. If you go to youtube and look at the Skirt Go Spinny channel on there, there is a link to the video a few comments down in the 'Community' tab.

The reason we find it difficult to imagine a man passing as a woman in all situations - especially in a women only space, is that we have a lot of experience with men who think they pass when they don't.

If men really do reliably pass as women, or women are overjoyed to have men in womens spaces. The chants of TWAW wouldnt be necessary, it wouldnt be a 'culture war'.

"The men facilities have space for them to pee. They do not need to use the women's facilities. "

What does that mean? The women's facilities have space for them to pee too. Cubicles can be used by both. And a trans woman who has had vaginoplasty, cant pee standing up at a urinal.

Whether you or others accept it or not, trans women say they feel like women, wrongly or rightly. Hence they feel unsafe and vulnerable in a space such as a toilet. Hence they use womens toilets if they can.

Why won't anyone say who they are going to vote for?

Labour or Tory?

There are cubicles in the male facilities, too. Men have no need to be in the womens toilets.

Oh Lord, Jules, you really need to have been on these boards a little longer.

The fastest growing porn category is transwomen in women's toilets, pissing on the seat, uploading selfies of their cocks, and putting sperm on the toilet paper.

And nor are women's toilets a shield.

Crikey. We're not therapy, we're not validation, and we're not a shield.

We have biological needs met by our own spaces.

Despite being statistically safe, if transwomen don't want to go into the gents, they can go into a gender neutral toilet. Let's face it, they're bloody everywhere.

The women's are for women and girls only.

The answer is no.

Again, if you read a little more?

There are tons of threads on here asking women who they'll vote for on the basis of which party is doing what about gender politics.

Lots of women will vote Tory, some never will. Some won't vote at all.

It's not a secret!

But everyone wants the political parties to address the issue.

Men don't but trans women say they do.

Like I said. Solve the problem. Outlaw transgender transitioning completly.

If it's all imaginary ideology, it will be doing future potential transgender people a favour anyway, by preventing thrm being sucked into that ideology.

Who are you voting for?

Whether you or others accept it or not, trans women say they feel like women, wrongly or rightly.

lol. I guarantee you can't describe that without being sexist. No one has.

The fastest growing porn category is transwomen in women's toilets, pissing on the seat, uploading selfies of their cocks, and putting sperm on the toilet paper.

Do you have any evidence at all for this?