Emma Barnett and Gillian Keegan.

[heldinadream]

Today prog R4 now - Emma holding GK to account!
16/05/24 8.45 been going on about 10 minutes really worth listening to!

Well having someone put forward the idea that laws should be based on fantasy is erm interesting.

Well, life IS interesting. Even sea life. 🤣.

Here's a confession I'll no doubt get panned for. I'm a guardian reader too. And I've no doubt, I'll be panned again, for saying I agree with most of what's written in the following.

Will I now be banned, as well a panned?
-‐---

"With so many real threats to women’s safety, it is confounding that this much time and attention is being lavished on a largely hypothetical risk. Every single case of someone being attacked is unacceptable, and everything must be done to protect women’s safety. Many cisgender women who support trans rights, myself included, have personal experience of sexual assault and take the topic extremely seriously. But the main threat to women comes overwhelmingly from men, not from trans women, who should not be penalised for the actions of predatory men. As a result, trans women and non-binary people are being excluded from single-sex spaces, putting them at a greatly increased risk of violence."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/18/there-is-so-much-more-for-us-to-worry-about-than-men-masquerading-as-women-to-access-single-sex-spaces

Many cisgender women

Yep, you lost me there.

The overwhelming sexual attacks on women are from men who dont live in Peterborough, therefore any man who lives in Peterborough can use womens changing rooms.

Women are adult human female people. We're not a subset of our own sex. Women and girls are female. Males are men and boys. I don't accept "cis" as a descriptor because it presupposes I share your ideology, which I do not.

The overwhelming sexual attacks on women are from men who dont live in Peterborough, therefore any man who lives in Peterborough can use womens changing rooms.

This analogy deserves

I remember that. It was a shame that the Twitter thread was deleted as it had the video links that were active and all.

The number of male people who were filming themselves masturbating madly for the porn sites while in the female toilets was eye opening. And all with their estrogen grown or implant enhanced breasts bared as well as the fully operational penises.

I remember the one who was SO excited that a mum and her kids were in the cubicle next door all using the toilet. That male masturbater was extra thrilled.

And the stories of the faked periods all over social media.

And the conversation between the two prominent male social media influencers (was it Montgomery and Shon Fae??) mocking the sounds that female people made urinating.

Once you see that it is a feature and not a 'bug' as so many people want to believe and want us to believe, you never unsee it.

'But the main threat to women comes overwhelmingly from men, not from trans women, who should not be penalised for the actions of predatory men.'

The author appears to be arguing that 1, Transwomen are not men and then 2, when a man identifies as a woman they are never ever predatory. This is demonstrably false.

1. You have to be male to be a man and you have to be male to be a transwoman. They are all the same biological sex.
2. The idea that TW are not predatory should have been blown out of the water with Karen White. Many, many more assults, rapes and attacks have happened since then.

I don't think that Jules watched the Skirt Go Spinny video.

So many opinions. All legitimately held, but still only opinions.

Including my own.

Votes count for more. Opinions here will only prevail if enough agree. I agree, Starmer isn't bonkers. He'll come to a sensible arrangement, not least because to his left, are plenty waiting to hold his feet to the fire. I think Starmer will come out with what Keegan said to Barnett.

Hey, who knows? Maybe she is the next defector to Labour. Lol

I can imagine me voting Labour this time around.

Some are opinions, some are facts, even if you, Starmer and everyone else in the world except the women on FWR pretend they aren't.

Trans issues have been the undoing of those British politicians that have supported it.

Penny Morduant would've been PM by now if she hadn't so enthusiastically supported it, Starmer wouldn't have had tough TV/radio interviews if he was just able to say adult human female, Sturgeon it was the final straw (but there is the question of what her and her husband were up to), etc, Yousef's reign ended with that hate crime law (that seems obsessed with misgendering).

The left in Labour have more important issues than trans rights, I think Labour will delay any action on it until absolutely necessary, and as the days move on the trans trend loses power.

That was quick

Starmer won't push the Scottish self certification thing. And yes the left have plenty of interests. But trans friendly policy is a vote winner not a vote loser I think, so the left won't be pushing against trans either.

So too is trans opposed policy, but only Sunak is pushing that to any extent, and has any chance of winning. But Sunak's chance of winning, is the same as the ice cube's chance of survival in hot water. He has two hopes. Bob Hope, and no hope. Bob Hope's dead.

An election may reveal who has most support; trans friendly or trans opposed. And if Starmer leaves the status quo in place, trans interest won't fade, it will continue to increase. Just as it has done since the gra 2004. Since then, the pressure has been to simplify and loosen the criteria. Unless policy is enacted that does the reverse, then trans will continue to grow.

And even if pressure is to reverse it, trans wont fade. It'll go quieter, but not fade out. The Gra won't be repealed though. If it's only a trend, it'll peter out when people lose interest. So far through history, that hasn't been the case. The opposite has been true.

You might say a genie is out of the bottle, and there's no putting it back. Starmer (Labour anyway, even if Starmer is dumped) will be in for the next 10 years I think. Trans are safe with Starmer. I'd imagine he'll hoover up most of the entire lgbt vote.

What did you say @ILikeDungs?

The left in Labour have more important issues than trans rights, I think Labour will delay any action on it until absolutely necessary, and as the days move on the trans trend loses power.

I agree the gender identity trend is losing steam, but I think it's likely to get worse before it gets better.

Extinction burst. A movement with such a high incidence of cluster B personality disorders in its followers is never going to fizzle out quietly.

What is an extinction burst?
An extinction burst is a sudden spike in the frequency of a behavior when the reinforcement for that behavior is removed. Because the action has produced a desirable result in the past, it is tried rapidly until it is clear the action no longer will result in the expected reward.

https://study.com/learn/lesson/extinction-burst-psychology.html

I think it might have been the reference to G.B. that went too far, even in these enlightened times? And I suggested she be respected.

After having a good laugh at a pp who responded to an article on AGP with "but but... women can be AGP too". Hilarious and revealing.

Will this be deleted?

The problem trans ideology will always have is its inability to maintain a static ethos. What its claiming and what it wants changes to accommodate anyone who wants to be part of it. That's why politicians cause themselves so much embarrassment when they try to define women using the ideology.

Does being trans require a diagnosis, being able to pass, surgery, drugs, a name change?Is it even binary anymore?

When it was first discussed here, people used to claim they only wanted to be seen as women socially, and not use womens spaces. If anything that would make them stand out more and cause them distress. Now its forcing everyone to be either 'cis het man' or 'anyone else', where the anyone else can be in every womens space.

Its an ideology that constantly pushing boundaries and expecting everyone to keep up with a growing list of ridiculous demands and then claims transphobia when people have had enough. Its trying to make sex irrelevant when sex is relevant for so many people in so many situations.

Ereshkigalangcleg

Extinction burst. Thanks for posting that link. Very interesting. I don't agree it will cause trans to fade out, but do agree the trend of ever increasing identities is unsustainable and frankly nuts.

Not of course to those who think that way though. So maybe we're watching a permanent shift in human behaviour and thinking.

Time will tell.

It's an ideology that constantly pushing boundaries and expecting everyone to keep up with a growing list of ridiculous demands and then claims transphobia when people have had enough.

Again, that speaks to the levels of disordered thinking that exist in the TRA movement. Narcissistic personalities can never be satisfied. No concession would ever be enough for them.

What will AI make of it all?

You tell me.

AI doesn't think, so no point in asking it.

AI doesn't think YET.

There's no point in asking it YET.

AI may become our modern Solomon.

I have been reading back on this thread. Did anyone post the hips diagram?

There seems to be that resurgence of the myth that woman cannot more reliably than not identify male people, even with puberty blockers once they notice skeletal proportions, including brow ridges, and gait. There is a fucking chasm between identifying someone in a heavily curated situation that is designed to disguise the male body cues and real life interactions that allow free movement even without the voice.