Emma Barnett and Gillian Keegan.

[heldinadream]

Today prog R4 now - Emma holding GK to account!
16/05/24 8.45 been going on about 10 minutes really worth listening to!

I think Gillian Keegan is holding her own pretty well. Emma is a very challenging interviewer. It is an interesting listen.

OK now talking about porn. Emma on the Today prog - what a bloody breakthrough! She is already amazing only been on it a couple of days!

I think it’s dreadful. Emma talking over her continuously, not letting her expand her points, going off on irrelevant tangents, Misunderstanding what she is saying (deliberately I assume)
i think minister is doing her best to explain what is a complicated subject and Emma should calm down abit!!

Porn bit better but why couldn’t the gender bit have been like that. It was unnecessarily argumentative

Yes GK is holding her own and that means they are really trying to battle out the nitty gritty - on a fully mainstream prog. So refreshing.

But why a battle? Everyone who has given this 5 mins thought would agree with minister. It doesn’t need to be a battle and it puts listeners off imo.

Ooh I've just posted about this (think we must have posted at the same time!)
It was robust! Brought out the (what I think!) is the best of EB, but also an open (ish) answer from GK which would not have been possible only a few weeks ago.

Cass has let in a lot of light.

I personally think people need to hear the arguments after all the years of pussy-footing around and TWAW, but I take your point it could have been calmer. But I think that's news style isn't it and they have to cram it in at a frantic pace. And Emma is excitable!

I don't think this is the case. 'Everyone' most definitely doesn't agree with the Minister.

Pretty shocking that a minister admitted that she had no idea about the issues in 2020. We’ve been taking about it here for YEARS.

I thought it was a great piece - EB holding her feet to the fire and GK answering frankly and holding her own. Good on them both. Let’s get some light on this subject FFS, it’s 2024 and so much damage has already been done.

@Bankholidayhelp that's pretty much what I think. We must both have leapt onto mumsnet in the same spirit of hoorah!
I'll go look for your thread.

Is there a new editor? The style of the programme just feels different (not just Emma, or maybe I am paying more attention).

Goodness, they've booked Sharron Davies this morning too, albeit for Hep C scandal.

Very interestingly on twitter, both GC and non GC / trans ally posters saying well done to Emma. I'm guessing she succeeded at BBC balance then. I really enjoyed hearing a more detailed, if heated, discussion of these issues.

Gillian keegan has only been education minister since 2022 so she wouldn’t have been looking particularly at this issue in 2020.
there was literally no need to hammer her for that and it wasted interview time.
back in 2020 everyone basically thought trans women were women apart from mumsnetters and she has obviously given it more thought since becoming education minister in 2022.
i think she deserves credit not a battering from Emma!

A very useful interview. Keegan has been on a journey, as they say.

But GK still said that TW who have had surgical reassignment are women - I think I would contest that albeit with much greater sympathy than those who wish to expose themselves in female changing rooms.

But she was STILL fudging over whether TWAW! Virtually said 'If they've fully transitioned...' by which of course she means if they've had their bits cut off and pop the hormones, they are 'legally and medically women'! NO THEY'RE NOT THEY ARE CASTRATED DRUGGED UP CONFUSED MEN!
Uh-oh. Will I get this thread pulled by my hate speech? Right now I don't care.

But GK still said that TW who have had surgical reassignment are women

That leapt out at me too.

I like Emma Barnett but I thought this was a very poor interview on an important subject. She sounds desperate to win her spurs and prove she can challenge politicians on Today. As a result she kept interrupting and I think anyone not familiar with the topic (unlike Mumsnetters) would have struggled to make heads or tails of it. Emma needs to calm down.
I hope she gets there when she is less nervous. She could learn from Amol Rajan who I think manages to challenge effectively but calmly.

@Godesstobe (FAB NAME!) that's a fair point but as I remember it Amol was talking at 100 miles an hour for longer than his first week and often un-listenable to. Emma was on fire and comprehensible if a little OTT.

I think it’s dreadful. Gillian talking over Emma continually, not letting her ask clear questions, going off on irrelevant tangents …

What came across clearly, in the end, is that GK still thinks that it is “kind” to say that transwomen are women, provided that they have had “gender reassignment surgery". This is still the nonsense that it is possible to change sex, though GK has thankfully moved away from self id.

Justin Webb has been very good on gender issues, so much so that he was officially reprimanded not that long ago for pointing out that trans women are male. Nick Robinson has also done some interviews that haven't been 100% #bekind, IIRC.

I think that’s it. Emma wanted to go in all guns blazing as the resident today show “expert” and it just became shouty and confusing.
emma also has only come relatively recently to this subject compared to how long MN has been discussing it so that’s a pointless thing to spend 3 mins arguing over. A calm reasonable discussion would have been better. If I was uninterested in this subject I’d have rolled my eyes and turned the radio off and that won’t ultimately win the argument.

@RapidOnsetGenderCritic spot on yes!

I didn’t hear much but she just sounded too worked up from the get go