Are you voting in the next general election purely on the transgender issue?

[TeacherAnonymous123]

Just as the title says really! Is that your only thought about who you'll vote for, or will you look at wider policies? Been getting lots of information through my letter box recently, and none mention it.

Former labour candidate Cook now advises the CPS https://www.cps.gov.uk/stories/pride-supporting-the-lgbt-community

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/11/labour-cancels-hustings-after-row-over-reinstated-candidate

Listening to Cooper this morning I bet the traffickers are laughing at how much they’ll cash in very soon.

Fucking hell what a load of bollocks

What exactly have the Tories done to stop the boats. Absolutely nothing bar a ridiculous gimmick.

As usual do nothing and stoke division.

Oh but Labour would be worse is all you can come up with. Are folks really this wilfully blind.

Anything to justify voting for the most chaotic corrupt inept government in my lifetime.

Did you listen?

What a load of shite. Do you think Labour can stop global trafficking networks? How exactly?

Wilfully blind indeed.

Also ask Ireland about increased numbers

I don't need to "ask Ireland" anything.

I'm Irish.

Good for you.

i see you have your own issues with a big increase U.K. to NI to Ireland

https://www.politico.eu/article/britain-offloads-refugee-crisis-ireland-dublin-aghast-migration-rwanda-plan/

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/rwanda-bill-causing-migrants-to-opt-for-ireland-deputy-pm-says-13123078

One link to show quote from politicians in Ireland the other one to show Christian, a migrant’s reaction

The threat of deportation to Rwanda is causing migrants to head for Ireland instead of the UK, Ireland's deputy prime minister has said.

Great. It shows already that it’s working.

Probably why Germany is also looking at the British plan very seriously.

We might see more do it in EU but Starmer will reverse that flow to Ireland

The elite border force speech today is laughable. They are migrants, you can’t actually get to trafficking networks through a person who has paid for passage

Wouldn’t it be ironic if Germany and France run with the Rwandian plan BEFORE the U.K.

Le Pen is looking hot to win the French elections - I imagine this issue will be number one on her long list given how utterly pissed off most of the French are about this.

I doubt any seats she gains in the European Parliament will lead to France adopting a Rwanda plan

The EU are slow as molasses on policy but June EP are up next

No one else is going to try Starmer’s approach, they know it would be utter madness. We’ll be up against global traffickers with what exactly?

There is always an assumption that the UK is a outlier.

Australia has long processed asylum seekers off shore and now Italy is moving people to Albania. Denmark is leading the way in the EU in terms of deporting failed asylum seekers promptly, and both they and Germany are looking at Rwanda type approaches.

Nothing new. Years ago I worked on a solution to Vietnamese boat people, which was essentially brokered by the UNHCR. A decade after the end of the war, and the composition of boat people had changed from people fleeing the Vietcong in fear of their lives to illiterate boys from fishing villages who saw pictures of Californian homes and cars and thought this would be theirs if they managed to get to the west.

The reality was that one in five died whilst crossing the south China Sea whilst others were robbed, raped or enslaved. And if you are not literate in your own language by 15 the chances of a successful economic future elsewhere is low.

Push and pull factors. The deal was that asylum seekers (mainly those at the end of a decade in re-education camps and unwanted by the Vietnamese) were processed in Vietnam and if successful flew directly to an asylum country. Economic migrants landing in third countries were returned to Vietnam. The boats stopped almost overnight. The traffickers lost their trade. Most importantly people did not die in pursuit of an unrealistic dream.

I wonder how many die in the middle east and elsewhere before they even set foot in a leaky dinghy to cross the Channel. And how many of those remain enslaved to the trafficking gangs. Not many will go to Rwanda but Rwanda may be needed as the deterrent.

Returning people does stop it pretty much immediately, it’s why Albania is no longer contributing to the trafficking trade to U.K. Traffickers can’t sell

Aus does do other location, it works, Labor there have kept it. They probably opposed it hugely when it first came in, but obviously Aus think it’s madness to scrap.

Ireland is seeing the re routes flow of people atm, it obviously would be enough of a threat to keep going a bit longer to Ireland, paying a bit more via bus or other

Starmer grinning over a plan that no country will use because it will be a lightening rod for traffickers is incredible, although pretty bad that it might actually happen.

From Politico article not U.K. press

“I don’t want to go back to Nigeria, and I don’t want to go to Rwanda either,” said Christian, a 25-year-old Nigerian

Like an estimated 80 percent of this year’s approximately 7,000 arrivals in Ireland, Christian entered the Republic of Ireland by road from the North, the only corner of the U.K. that shares a land border with an EU member. He says he paid a taxi driver £2,400 to drive him and two other Nigerians the 102 miles from Northern Ireland’s capital of Belfast across the border to Dublin — only to learn that others in the asylum queue had made the same trip by public bus for £17.

I thought the point of the policy was to stop people putting themselves in danger by trying to cross the channel? Clearly it isn't working if they're still crossing.

Would you prefer to reverse the flow from Ireland?

There is a weird sort of idealism in parts of the Labour Party. A belief in an ideal of equality. Education does not matter, history does not matter, nor does debate and the exchange of views.

You claim your place at the table using your backstory. A political X factor. Views are formed by 280 character tweets, based on tribes of right (side of history) and far-right.

History exists for a reason....to learn from.

(For balance, the Tory Party has plenty of its own problems. We need a box on ballot papers saying....neither of the above and not the LibDems nor Greens either.)

FWIW the Vietnam story written from a rather American perspective. The imbalance in the figures and the long tail of family reunification is presumably GI babies and their family. Though numbers are small a couple of the Scandinavian countries were particularly generous in prioritising disabled refugees. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orderly_Departure_Program

How does that remotely relate to the comment you're responding to?

If you think it’s ’not working’ is your preference to scrap it as Labour will?

Because if you do you’ll reverse the flow from Ireland

So which do you prefer flow to Ireland or not

The point is that Sunak et al claim their policies are motivated by concern for the safety of people crossing the channel. Manifestly if they move on to Ireland we've done fuck all to stop them crossing the channel.

I prefer a sensible policy where we actually talk to the French and broker a deal whereby we take up the French offer to process asylum seekers in France and give genuine applicants safe passage, and agree to take a stated number a year; and combine that with an agreement whereby they take back any that cross the channel instead.

That’s not going to happen. Even Starmer as mad as his approach is knows that.

You’ll need to be realistic about what can happen.

Atm the option is re route to Ireland or reverse that flow. That could change as deportation threat picks up but that’s the choice right now

Why is not going to happen? The French have already offered facilities for asylum checks to be made there. If it doesn't, then the answer has to be to offer safe passage combined with an efficient asylum checking system on our side of the channel.

The point which you are not answering is that it is utterly hypocritical to claim that refugees going to Ireland is any sort of vindication. If Sunak and his mates were even slightly genuine in being motivated by the risk to life, they would not claim this, because manifestly refugees trying to get to Ireland will still be risking their lives.

The Tories don't give a shit about the safety of refugees crossing the Channel. It's just another Tory lie.🙄

This thread has descended into farce.

Nobody outside the Tory fag-end of this doomed government thinks the Rwanda gimmick is a good idea.