Are you voting in the next general election purely on the transgender issue?

[TeacherAnonymous123]

Just as the title says really! Is that your only thought about who you'll vote for, or will you look at wider policies? Been getting lots of information through my letter box recently, and none mention it.

Do you the evidence they intend to do this? or is this your opinion?

As far as i'm aware, Labour haven't published their manifesto yet.

I'm struggling to see how much easier a GRC could be to get, bearing in mind they slashed the fee to £5 and opened many more clinics.

I agree , Liz was a twit. But, the last 14 yrs have been economically bliss, with low interest rates, full level of employment. The wars, Covid and supply chain issues are not due to this Government, they are a worldwide phenomena.

It’s a TRA tactic to keep pushing it as ‘trans issues’

It gets much harder to deflect when it’s as you say,

plus safeguarding, dignity, fairness, privacy and generally not living in some Orwellian society

Do you think Labour party members give up their critical thinking faculties when they sign the direct debit for their subscription? There is massive dissent in Labour ranks — always has been, always will be. And quite rightly.

I'm guessing you have little experience of the tribal nature of voting in small semi-devolved nations that have the Westminster get-out available to them. I've been in meetings where people have argued that someone (most recently Jeremy Miles but there have been others) should be nominated/ in office because (and only because) they are 'proper Welsh', with both parents born in Wales and speaking Welsh at home. This isn't how you get the best person for any job.

A growing number of Labour party members are growing frustrated at seeing Labour in Wales tinkering with the deckchairs on the Titanic (20mph, self-ID, creating more seats in the Senedd for more grifters) while the ship is sinking.

A friend in another constituency has been told by his MS that Welsh Labour is only keeping up the transgender/ Gender Ideology nonsense because of pressure from Plaid, the party that Labour have to rely on if they want a majority in the Senedd. Like the Greens in Scotland, Plaid is wielding a disproportionate level of power that doesn't reflect the number of seats it holds. It's a disgrace that Welsh Labour is willing to sacrifice women's rights in order to maintain control of the Senedd.

I think we can lay Brexit squarely at the feet of the Tories though, and that's not a worldwide phenomenon.

So in your opinion, the Welsh people, many of whom have moved from England for various reasons are thick and stupid as they keep on voting for Labour.

20mph limits? oh yes they'd be the ones that everyone likes in their street or village as residents but hate them when out driving?

The Welsh Govt is making adjustments to these, correctly so, we ve got then in Cornwall too, no big deal and when driving around Par recently, i was pleased to respect the rights & safety of the residents in area around their athletics track.

Put any group of people together for a common cause and they will argue, same as with ALL political parties, don't know what point you re trying to make here.

Re what I said here
ScrollingLeaves · Today 10:50

Yes there is evidence and there was a recent thread discussing it I think I remember, though it might have been within a thread. I could look later but need to go now. Meanwhile perhaps another poster might be able to help.

Yes plus VAT on private school fees - against!

Sajid Javid was instrumental in delivering the Cass Report, it would never have happened under Labour, we all know that.

The WPATH approach has been exposed as being entirely without sound evidence. The Cass report has been spun to emphasise the holistic approach as being a win for the trans movement when what it really means for most children is wait and see, coupled with an exploration of co morbidities and an emphasise on talk therapies. As most children grow out of it during puberty this will verify that it is indeed transient, that alone will change the landscape. Any political party would be extremely foolish to continue to push medicalising children after the Cass Report. The trans movement needed the children to verify them and provide recruits, that will dwindle through time.

We are not going away, the GC movement is growing all the time, and it will continue to grow. The detransitioners litigation will help to ensure that, Keira Bell is just the tip of a big, growing and increasingly visible iceberg. In Ireland, evidence is surfacing of the harm being caused to women in prison specifically, but also in other protected spaces, and there is legislation going through the Dail right now seeking to stop it.

The thing that the TRA side claims would never happen keeps happening, again and again, trans women displaying male pattern violence and sexual offending. The hospital rape by a trans woman will also happen again and again, as the NHS will not be able to prevent it as the get out clause will be used with glee. We will make these crimes very visible, rely on it.

The more ground we gain the more vicious the pushback is likely to be unfortunately, KJK was almost killed in New Zealand. The aggressive black clad and masked thugs that surround women when we protest is likely to become even more violent the more ground we gain, and that will not be a good look for the trans cause. The violence and intimidation won’t stop women though, it didn’t stop the original suffragettes and it won’t stop us, we are fighting for our very survival and for the freedom of our daughters.

The thing about reality is that it eventually can’t be denied, especially now that the era of no debate is well and truly over. The Labour Party is doing itself no favours by standing by the lie that people can change sex, they can’t, and everyone outside the TRA echo chamber actually knows that, that’s why these policies are rejected by the vast majority of the population, as poll after poll in every country shows.

This is not a grassroots movement, it is a top down movement based on very questionable evidence, that has been imposed by legislation. It is destabilising not just families but the whole of society, that will have repercussions. People generally don’t like Russian style restrictions on their freedom, and how popular do you think recording things that aren’t even a crime but that will affect peoples employability and finances are going to be? Every person that is debanked has family and friends, how do you think popular movements grew before the internet? Word of mouth still works you know so even if they stop us criticising them on the internet, we can still trash them verbally, in a polite way to stop us being arrested. JKR really defanged the draconian Scottish Hate Crime Laws on day one lol.

Who do you think will be blamed for these misfortunes once people realise exactly who these restrictions and punishments were brought in to promote? This movement does not have longevity because it is unscientific and not based on reality. Trans people have all the rights that everyone else has. Trans women have the exact same rights as any other man and trans men have exactly the same rights as any other woman, what is being demanded is privilege not rights, and that privilege is stripping the rights from other groups. In Scotland a trans woman has more rights than a natal woman, and the proposed misogyny law will cover them too, that means that they will have two lots of protection, that is privilege. The evidence for violence towards trans women just isn’t there, and the touted statistics were based on South American trans women in the South American sex industry, not on trans women here. Women shouldn’t be used as shields to protect men from the violence of other men anyway.

The trans utter disregard for anyone but themselves will ultimately be their undoing, all they have to do is keep pushing. Operation let them speak.

Are you aware of your tone? A sort of confrontational , hectoring tone and what I picture as a wagging finger.

Starmer keeps reiterating his promise to " modernise" the GRA to make it easier and more simple to get a certificate. It is effectively Self ID, although he doesn't call it that - because of the £5 cost and the need to get one doctor of personal choice to sign it off. But it is to embed even further the notion that people can change sex.

He has not said anything about making clearer the definition of 'Sex' and unless he does this there will always be confusion and fudge when defining what a woman is. Biological sex or legal sex.

Linda Riley remains the Lead LGBTQ advisor to the Labour Party; they still pay their dues to Stonewall, and have given no indication that they intend to challenge the concept of the 'trans child' at all. They still talk about banning conversion therapy with no indication that they are aware of how that might be impacted by the findings of the Cass Review.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 The unions have just shown how utterly misogynistic they are, despicable 🤬

Did this shitshow mostly happen under a Conservative government? Yes.
I personally think this was a combination of being asleep at the wheel, lulled by a vague sense of "what about that nice Hayley off Corrie?". Plus some sneaky assistance from the likes of Mordaunt.

Do I think the Conservatives have jerked awake a bit and made a clumsty attempt to turn the tanker round? Yes.
The likes of Badenoch and Javid truly get it, and the one thing the Tories have been over the centuries is good at winning elections. Outside of gender-woo circles this isn't a vote-winner.

Do I think Labour would take over the wheel and keep reversing? No.
All Starmer needs to say is that trans people be treated with respect, but that mammals cannot change sex and single sex spaces are vital in certain key areas of life. It's not fucking hard.

Indeed.

If you're going to go to all the trouble of "modernising" the GRA, why not define your terms? Explain what you mean when you use the words "male", "female" and "gender".

Why not remove the exception for male aristocrats to still benefit from the rules of male primogeniture? That's not very modern.

Why not introduce some protections for people other than male aristocrats, such as female prisoners and rape survivors?

Why not include a mechanism for revoking a GRC if someone has behaved in a way inconsistent with their "acquired gender", such as committing rape if you have become legally female, or having a baby if you have become legally male?

No?

None of that?

Just making it easier for people to get the magical piece of paper with a legal fiction on it?

Okay then.

@ScrollingLeaves any help?
https://labourwomensdeclaration.org.uk/the-spousal-consent-clause-in-the-gra-an-important-protection-for-women/

The difficulty for the Tories in exploiting this is that yeah, Starmer sounds muddled and evasive and all the rest but there's also a fairly large section of the population that also feels conflicted and uncomfortable. I'd say his attitude isn't a million miles away fro the median position which goes something like this:

Everyone knows that trans women aren't really women but they feel very mean for saying so and they don't really like the idea of elderly trans women being forced onto male hospital wards and surely pronouns are harmless but obviously rapists shouldn't be in women's prisons and men in women's sports is unfair and isn't there some magic solution that doesn't require us all to be mean to someone?

So Tories can laugh all they want at Starmer's circumlocutions and be all "yah boo, doesn't know what a woman is" but perhaps should bear in mind that they'll be laughing at how a lot of voters feel too.

I think you'll find Maria Miller (conservative) was the pivotal figure in respect of the promotion of self-ID in recent parliamentary history.

Yes she was and I've said so on MN FWR many, many times. She and Mordaunt especially ended up in thrall to Crispin Blunt (Con) and his whackjob beliefs. Also lured into the whole self-ID debacle were a whole raft of ministers for women & equalities and chairs of the select committee - Rudd, Morgan, Nokes - and even Theresa May.

And it was LIZ TRUSS ffs, under Boris Johnson, who put a stop to it, just in time, and Blunt went apoplectic in the Commons about his back-room deal falling apart. (Worth watching if you get the chance.)

I spoiled my ballot paper (postal vote) and will continue to do so in every election unless things change with the cowardly and captured Labour, LibDem and Green parties.

not sure I can forgive the Tories for Brexshit or the last 14 years, but I anticipate things will get worse in many ways under Labour so it’s not beyond the realms of possibility I vote blue in the more distant future.

Yep Truss dropped Self ID a couple of years before Labour finally diverted from championing it

Brexit was a referendum in a democracy, and the democracy decided what they wanted.
Im not a Tory, and I dont blame them to give the people a choice, which they got and decided.

“In thrall”, “lured in”. Did they have no agency?

I'm not sure there is emotional blackmail - a lot of people like me say that their vote will be for the person most likely to get the Tories out, but we're all free to vote as we wish.
However, it is the Tories who have created the conditions from which we need to recover through their policies over the last 14 years; we've seen their mettle; that alone creates a significant difference between them and other parties.

No, it's very important to me but is equal to housing and economy

I don't wish to derail the thread but no, the people didn't decide what they wanted. They decided - by a very slim margin and following a relentless campaign of disinformation - what they didn't want. The actual alternatives were not clearly spelled out to them, and after the actual referendum they had no further part in choosing the direction the country would go in. I don't find that democratic at all.

This

I see a lot of emotional blackmail designed to make women feel that their own rights are unimportant compared to matters such as the crumbling healthcare system or children living in poverty.

I'd like to see all this energy directed at the politicians forcing women to choose between those things, not at the women in an impossible position.