Page 12 | Are you voting in the next general election purely on the transgender issue?

TeacherAnonymous123 · 2024-04-30T11:54:09+00:00

Just as the title says really! Is that your only thought about who you'll vote for, or will you look at wider policies? Been getting lots of information through my letter box recently, and none mention it.

Newnamepls · 01/05/2024 06:43

I wouldn’t vote purely on this issue if there were options between parties who were clear about what women are and protecting women and children’s rights. I will discount any party from my options that can’t even recognise my sex, so at the moment, with only one party being clear, I would effectively be voting purely on this issue.

ArabellaScott · 01/05/2024 06:43

Fukuraptor · 01/05/2024 03:42

It's not just a little issue though is it?

It's the freedom to say 2+2=4

It's wanting politicians we can trust to have the courage to go against the zeitgeist and to at least listen to the minority report of whistle blowers.

Who are grounded in reality and in touch with enough ordinary people that when faced with the Westminster/Media/Academic bubble thinking, they have an internal or external functional bullshit detector. And the political skill and courage to act upon it.

You cannot silo off this issue into a side bar for folk who are only interested in it.

Trust doesn't work like that.

Fundamentally politicians from all parties (in differing ratios) have shown themselves to be liars, bullies, cowards and idiots over this. That's not something we can unsee.

It effects everything else they claim to believe, every policy promise they make. Also, the older I get the more I have observed that governments are rarely defined by what they WANT to do when they get power, but by how they respond to world events that happen WHiLE they are in power (9/11, Iraq, Global Financial Collapse, okay, Cameron created his own - Brexit, COVID). So what you need is leadership you can trust to make the right calls when the pressure is on, on issues they didn't pick. What do you do when whistleblowers are telling you there is a huge medical scandal going on, or that the post office is bullying it's postmasters through the legal system, etc? Are you going make the right call?

Jocko Willink (ex navy seal) was asked if he was in leadership in the us military and some situation came up like China attacking Taiwan, what would be the most important thing he would do? He said, to keep an open mind. Because as soon as you start thinking you know how it's going to go, what the enemy will do etc, you close down your ability to think flexibly, to see what's really happening, to take advantage of opportunities and see dangers.

A whole bunch of politicians didn't keep an open mind. They decided/maybe not even consciously that supporting TRA demands was the Right thing to do, and ignored all the voices explaining the negative consequences. You can't cut off or dismiss information like that as beneath your notice, it'll bite your arse.

Since Cass, I am slightly more hopeful that Labour won't be a complete disaster on this issue but I'm still concerned and would like more reassurance.

I'll be checking what my local candidates say/have said. I don't think. I can vote for an individual if they profess to believe TWAW.

Edited

Yes. Exactly.

It's about trust. For all.of my adult life up until the 'gender' issue I had trusted Labour and/or the Lib Dems (I'm a centrist lefty) to do roughly the right thing.

'Gender' has destroyed my trust in the left. Absolutely hollowed it out and ground it up.

I've never expected much from the Tories so I've not had that disappointment. But I can't vote for cowards and liars and that's all I think of when I look at Labour, Libdems.

They not only failed to protect children, they actively maligned and abused women who tried to raise the alarm. Women in their own fecking party!

If the mission was to 'queer' politics, in the 'queer theory' sense of undermining and destabilising everything, its certainly succeeded.

Vaccances · 01/05/2024 06:45

BreadInCaptivity · 01/05/2024 00:41

Agree.

BUT the biggest difference is that the Tories have rowed back.

If we'd been under a Labour Government we'd be in the same situation as Canada and all the other countries that ushered in self id without a shred of due diligence.

Let's not forget most of western democracy has got caught in this cultish propaganda.

Just look at Scotland and the SNP......

Do you REALLY think we'd be in a better place on this issue under Labour?

If so you are delusional. Self ID would a legal right if so. Game over.

Even now the Labour Leader can't articulate biological reality but you want him responsible for the NHS/Education etc and is still super cosy with Stonewall.

The global trans epidemic would have happened regardless of who was in power in the UK for the last 14 years.

But go ahead and make your own choices. It's a democracy after all. Just don't pretend the last 14 years would have been better under Corbyn and his brand of activism (on any issue) rather than political leadership.

Labour lost the last two General Elections rather than the Conservatives winning them.

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Have they rowed back?

they were recently asked what they planned on doing about the GRA, their reply was "no change as it strikes the right balance"

Talk is cheap.

Rosie Duffield is sticking with Labour, she hasn't joined the Tory party, which based on what you re saying she would do as Labour are anti women/will destroy our rights/send us back to the dark ages.

So why aren't you (and others) backing her?

EasternStandard · 01/05/2024 06:50

Vaccances · 01/05/2024 06:45

Have they rowed back?

they were recently asked what they planned on doing about the GRA, their reply was "no change as it strikes the right balance"

Talk is cheap.

Rosie Duffield is sticking with Labour, she hasn't joined the Tory party, which based on what you re saying she would do as Labour are anti women/will destroy our rights/send us back to the dark ages.

So why aren't you (and others) backing her?

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Because it’s easy to see how Duffield has been treated by the Labour Party and she has less influence due to their gender allegiance

It’s also easy to see the gains women have made in the last year or so with some reversals

Vaccances · 01/05/2024 06:51

They not only failed to protect children, they actively maligned and abused women who tried to raise the alarm. Women in their own fecking party!

Yet Rosie Duffield is still in the Labour party.... strange that.

All the children who have died at the hands of abusive parents and carers over the last 14 years, have died as a result of Tory policies, its the Tories that have failed to protect children, time n time again we hear of social workers with 100s of children on the case loads, staff burn out, stress, failure to recruit.

Just as they failed to protect my MiL from sexual abuse last year, whilst she was in a single sex hospital ward.

Just as they are now going after the long term sick and the disabled.

You carry on and vote back in the nasty party

Wherewerewerewear · 01/05/2024 06:58

BreadInCaptivity · 01/05/2024 00:41

Agree.

BUT the biggest difference is that the Tories have rowed back.

If we'd been under a Labour Government we'd be in the same situation as Canada and all the other countries that ushered in self id without a shred of due diligence.

Let's not forget most of western democracy has got caught in this cultish propaganda.

Just look at Scotland and the SNP......

Do you REALLY think we'd be in a better place on this issue under Labour?

If so you are delusional. Self ID would a legal right if so. Game over.

Even now the Labour Leader can't articulate biological reality but you want him responsible for the NHS/Education etc and is still super cosy with Stonewall.

The global trans epidemic would have happened regardless of who was in power in the UK for the last 14 years.

But go ahead and make your own choices. It's a democracy after all. Just don't pretend the last 14 years would have been better under Corbyn and his brand of activism (on any issue) rather than political leadership.

Labour lost the last two General Elections rather than the Conservatives winning them.

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Well said. So true.

ArabellaScott · 01/05/2024 06:59

Vaccances · 01/05/2024 06:51

They not only failed to protect children, they actively maligned and abused women who tried to raise the alarm. Women in their own fecking party!

Yet Rosie Duffield is still in the Labour party.... strange that.

All the children who have died at the hands of abusive parents and carers over the last 14 years, have died as a result of Tory policies, its the Tories that have failed to protect children, time n time again we hear of social workers with 100s of children on the case loads, staff burn out, stress, failure to recruit.

Just as they failed to protect my MiL from sexual abuse last year, whilst she was in a single sex hospital ward.

Just as they are now going after the long term sick and the disabled.

You carry on and vote back in the nasty party

You're leaping to conclusions there.

Vaccances · 01/05/2024 07:25

ArabellaScott · 01/05/2024 06:59

You're leaping to conclusions there.

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No i am not, if you fail to vote Labour, then you are backing the Tories.

In our crappy FPTP system, there will be only 2 possible outcomes, coalition aside, which is highly unlikely given Labours polling.

Like i said, Duffield gets my support and thats within Labour, change can only come from within.

EasternStandard · 01/05/2024 07:25

Vaccances · 01/05/2024 06:51

They not only failed to protect children, they actively maligned and abused women who tried to raise the alarm. Women in their own fecking party!

Yet Rosie Duffield is still in the Labour party.... strange that.

All the children who have died at the hands of abusive parents and carers over the last 14 years, have died as a result of Tory policies, its the Tories that have failed to protect children, time n time again we hear of social workers with 100s of children on the case loads, staff burn out, stress, failure to recruit.

Just as they failed to protect my MiL from sexual abuse last year, whilst she was in a single sex hospital ward.

Just as they are now going after the long term sick and the disabled.

You carry on and vote back in the nasty party

I’m not sure why Duffield means so much especially when Labour have treated her as they have

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 01/05/2024 07:41

Vaccances · 01/05/2024 07:25

No i am not, if you fail to vote Labour, then you are backing the Tories.

In our crappy FPTP system, there will be only 2 possible outcomes, coalition aside, which is highly unlikely given Labours polling.

Like i said, Duffield gets my support and thats within Labour, change can only come from within.

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Given that there are only two realistic outcomes, that makes it even more unconscionable that one of them has such obvious contempt for women.

Why is Labour not a pro woman party?

This would never have happened under Blair's leadership, because he understood that there are more women in the electorate than there are blue haired activists.

Medschoolmum · 01/05/2024 07:44

No. I'm gender critical but I think that anyone who votes on this one issue alone is a fool.

Nellodee · 01/05/2024 07:48

Absolutely no way am I voting Tory in a million years. I’ve got a red wall to get back here.

ArabellaScott · 01/05/2024 07:48

Vaccances · 01/05/2024 07:25

No i am not, if you fail to vote Labour, then you are backing the Tories.

In our crappy FPTP system, there will be only 2 possible outcomes, coalition aside, which is highly unlikely given Labours polling.

Like i said, Duffield gets my support and thats within Labour, change can only come from within.

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Your crappy FPTP system presentd differently to those of us living in Scotland.

And as someone who lives under the chaos of our PR system and is now subject to unelected list politicians exerting far more.power than they ought to: be careful what you wish for.

ArabellaScott · 01/05/2024 07:50

'Fail to vote Labour' is quite an interesting way to put it, though. Presented as some kind of purity test. Do you really rage at everyone who 'fails to vote Labour'?

Nellodee · 01/05/2024 07:50

Oh, and my only hope for the survival of the school I teach at, and which my children attend, not being absorbed into a National multi academy trust chain due to bankruptcy, is a labour government. I’m aware that may not be enough to save it, but another term of tories will definitely ruin it.

EasternStandard · 01/05/2024 07:52

Medschoolmum · 01/05/2024 07:44

No. I'm gender critical but I think that anyone who votes on this one issue alone is a fool.

I feel similarly about these posts tbh

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 01/05/2024 07:54

ArabellaScott · 01/05/2024 07:50

'Fail to vote Labour' is quite an interesting way to put it, though. Presented as some kind of purity test. Do you really rage at everyone who 'fails to vote Labour'?

Why is there no rage towards Labour for failing to respect and protect women?

I don't owe anyone my vote. They need to win it.

Nellodee · 01/05/2024 07:56

ArabellaScott · 01/05/2024 07:50

'Fail to vote Labour' is quite an interesting way to put it, though. Presented as some kind of purity test. Do you really rage at everyone who 'fails to vote Labour'?

My personal take would be “fail to vote for the party most likely to beat the tories in your constituency”. I’d even vote liberal or reform to get the tories out, if it made sense locally. It’s the end result that matters to me, not whether I feel like my vote matches my beliefs.

FfsJaney · 01/05/2024 07:59

Yes I will. They're all a shower of shit who lie amongst many other things, so I might as well vote on the basis of a subject I feel very strongly about ie, biological facts.

ArabellaScott · 01/05/2024 08:04

Nellodee · 01/05/2024 07:56

My personal take would be “fail to vote for the party most likely to beat the tories in your constituency”. I’d even vote liberal or reform to get the tories out, if it made sense locally. It’s the end result that matters to me, not whether I feel like my vote matches my beliefs.

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It was the word 'fail' I was specifically interested by.

Like others, I'm increasingly noticing the righteousness and intolerance. As if people can be bullied or shamed into voting one way or another.

I vote based on manifesto, candidate, and my own considered judgement. Not on someone else's angry instruction.

If Labour want my vote they need to demonstrate how they are better.

Anyone living in Scotland is heartily sick of a government that has only one line: 'the other lot are bad and its all their fault'.

Stop slagging off the Tories and demonstrate WHY Labour/Green/Raving Loony party are better.

ZeldaFighter · 01/05/2024 08:05

LarkRiseSummer · 30/04/2024 16:17

You might want to take a look at how a labour government has been working for Wales (clue it's a shit show).

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I've not lived in Wales for a while but when I did, underfunding was the key issue. Losing European funding won't have helped. Legacy of poverty issues also massive. There's not much anyone can do in Wales without buckets of cash.

And Labour might lose over the 20mph thing anyway!

RebelliousCow · 01/05/2024 08:07

Nellodee · 01/05/2024 07:56

My personal take would be “fail to vote for the party most likely to beat the tories in your constituency”. I’d even vote liberal or reform to get the tories out, if it made sense locally. It’s the end result that matters to me, not whether I feel like my vote matches my beliefs.

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Some people live in constituencies or cities in which Labour will win whatever they personally do or don't do with their vote. Most people, in such constituencies, will continue to vote for the Labour candidate, no matter how inept or compromised that candidate is.

ZeldaFighter · 01/05/2024 08:08

ARichtGoodDram · 30/04/2024 13:10

No. I have two disabled children. One won’t live to adulthood, but one has. The decimation of health and support services, and the constant attacks on the welfare state mean I wouldn’t vote Tory no matter their stance on this

I also don’t believe they’d do anything more useful than any other party on that issue anyway. They’re simply jumping on it last minute in the desperate hope people will forget everything else they’ve done and focus on that. The are not the friend of women, they’ve shown that repeatedly over their tenure. That hasn’t changed.

I'm really sorry, how awful. I hope you enjoy your time with your child x

ArabellaScott · 01/05/2024 08:08

Also Nellodee, apologies, that read like I was accusing you of things and I wasn't! It's general exasperation.

RebelliousCow · 01/05/2024 08:11

Lots of people where I live ( and elsewhere) won't vote Labour this time, they'll vote for other more radical Left wing socialist and Independent candidates.

OJ has told his 'followers' to vote Green.