Male friend on FB (a doctor no less), telling me that trans women are real women.

[Blondiebeachbabe]

I shared a meme on FB, about not supporting trans women in female sports.

A male friend of mine, who is a GP, commented that trans women are real women 🙄 I replied that trans women are men, and that my gripe was men in women’s sports, and men (rapists like Karen White), being housed in female prisons.

He then said that he knew lots of trans men, who just wanted to live a peaceful life, and I’m thinking well yes, because they are actually biologically female!

He then went on to quote all manner of statistics about violence from men against trans women and how trans women are at more risk of violence than cis women (I hate that term). and how cis women are more likely to be attacked by cis men than trans women.

It’s been annoying me all day. Here is another male telling me what to think, but also, whether the violence comes from normal men against trans women (who are men), or trans women against real women, this is essentially a male violence problem.

Because, we as women, aren’t the perpetrators in any of this. So men, stay in your own lane and sort out all your shit. You don’t get to throw the men you don’t like into our lane (bathrooms and prisons), and make us your collateral damage.

If a fox said that it felt like it was a chicken, you wouldn’t let it sleep in the chicken coup, just in case it was lying.

I may not have articulated this in the best way!

I totally agree. I respect everyone's right to their own viewpoints but I do think the obsession over this mind boggling given the wider state of affairs.

Crippling energy prices...
A complete lack of decent affordable childcare...
An NHS on the bones of its arse...
Global warming at point of no return...

But yet vote based entirely on rights for trans people😳

I know quite a lot of trans people. (FWIW, they don't want a big fuss, they just want to be able to use public toilets without getting their heads panned in.)

But if they insist on using the wrong sex toilets for them, they will obviously cause a fuss - as they're deliberately ignoring the express reason why we've had single-sex toilets for a very long time.

Nobody should be threatening them with any kind of violence or unkindness when they use the correct sex toilets - just because they choose to dress or present in a way more stereotypically associated with the opposite sex - but equally, that doesn't give them a right or excuse to become the aggressors, which is what blatantly disrespecting long-established sex boundaries in public toilets and the people for whom they are reserved most clearly is.

Tbf they are over represented in some traditionally male roles. I’ve been in work environments where there’s been more TW than women (and it’s grim)

I've never had an issue with a trans woman in a toilet. But I have definitely come into public toilets and been aware that there was someone a bit dodgy there (teenagers up to no good, junkie looking shifty, very drunk leary women). In those circumstances I've used my judgment and left the room.

The reality is using a public loo means you might end up in a confined space with awful people. Does forcing trans women to pee in a bog full of hairy cis men remove all risk for cis women in single sex bathrooms?

Brilliant! 😆

This. The G in GRC stands for Gender. Gender is not the same as sex whatever some people try to tell you. Which is why gender is not a protected characteristic but sex is.

Bloody laws eh? Give with one hand , take away with the other……… almost as though someone preempted the foot stamping and tantrums.

Mischievous teenagers, drunk people and drug users all have the right to be in the women’s toilet- provided they are female.
If they threaten others, they should be reported to the police. I don’t think such events are commonplace though- certainly not something I’ve experienced. (I mean yes I’ve seen all of those people in a public loo but not felt threatened).

Women are not a shield for vulnerable men. If men cannot handle sharing a loo with a feminised male, that is a problem for men to address. (As it happens, when I’ve asked the men in my life how they would react to a TW in the men’s loos, the answer is always ‘probably do a double take, but just get on with having a piss and then leave’)

How can women tell whether the TW who is in the ladies is someone who really does just want to pee in peace, or whether they’re one of the many men who use this ideology as a way of obtaining easy access to victims?

And maybe the answer is to address the question as to why a man in a dress isn’t welcome in a male toilet. Some people need help to work on their being kindness, but here’s a hint , it isn’t women.

Firstly, there's no such thing as a cis man. There are just male people and female people, some of whom have gender identities. Trans women are male people, for the avoidance of doubt.

Secondly, no, requiring trans women to use the toilets which are provided for members of their own sex instead of those which are provided for members of the opposite sex does not remove all risk for women. What it does achieve is to make it absolutely crystal clear that any male person you encounter in a women's single sex space has no right to be there, and that depending on your assessment of the situation, you can ask them to leave, scream and run away, or go and find a member of staff responsible for the space and get them to intervene. As things stand, someone like Levi Bellfield could enter a women's toilet and we are supposed to just trust that he has the right to be there because of how he identifies. This clearly puts women and girls at much greater risk.

No, but it reduces that particular risk and also means that women who through their own protected characteristic of religious belief are able to use the female only space. I've only knowingly been the only other woman in a toilet with a junkie once, in recent years and, to be honest, she just needed a safe space to clean herself up, too.

By logic, we should allow unlicensed drivers on the road because people get killed by drivers who do have a license, too.

I think about this a lot. Sacha Bailey (formerly IDd as trans) said something I've been thinking about ever since I heard it, which is that people in circumstances that hurt them, which they have no control over, will seek to change anything they can in order to do the very human thing that is 'something'. We're not good at identifying what causes our issues. We are very good at seeing patterns around us (and the trans pattern is being repeated a lot online at the moment, as well as in the media, and in schools, and more and more in real life as the ripples move outward) and matching ourselves to the pattern. I could have IDd as trans when I was 18-19. Actually I was very unhappy, in a shockingly bad relationship (deliberately, I put myself in danger a lot at that age, drank too much, had little self regard) and I was acting out because I didn't trust anyone to tell them how I was feeling. I got over it. But one of the ways I protected myself was to dress more masculine, and more chavvy if you like. It was a defense mechanism. I saw what tough young women did around me when their lives were brutal and I copied it. I'd absolutely have fallen into this trap. When you're literally worried about the end of the world, have no money, won't own a house, etc etc etc - and have no control, even subconsciously your brain will try and get you to change something in order to feel like you have some. The social internet is compounding the overwhelming fear of EVERYTHING, to boot.

Ah, but they’re not REAL transwomen, according to those who are invested in all this guff.

That is true - I forgot about the mandatory membership card return when they're caught doing something criminal. Except when they want to be in the women's estate...they can keep it for that because it's unfair to imprison them with the other violent men.

Too many rules to follow!

It's so telling. This comment shows people are fully aware men are more likely to be violent than women in toilets. What about the aggressive teens in the women's toilets, are trans women magically safe from those in there?

Sorry @viques that was directed to the one you replied to, I was just chiming in 😁

Personally I find it mind boggling that Labour, the Lib Dems, the Greens, the SNP and Plaid Cymru are still not reading the fucking room and keep trying to gaslight everyone that a trans woman is a woman when we need them to provide us with a sane and sensible alternative to the Tories.

Nobody is holding a gun to their heads and making them say, "A woman can have a penis and if you disagree you're a hateful bigot."

So why the fuck are they saying it?

He should have his medical license revoked. I would be worried my husband is accepting of his shit too.

Btw has anyone man ever suffered violence when using the woman's toilets? Anything is possible but I'd like to see receipts.

Also- as a woman I have never felt unsafe due to another woman in toilets.

Firstly, there's no such thing as a cis man. There are just male people and female people, some of whom have gender identities. Trans women are male people, for the avoidance of doubt.

It must feel so great to know how right you are and how wrong everyone else is. What a gift, I hope you treasure it and it's not too much of a burden.

I don't have the luxury of time that I can get into drawn out tete a tetes with people so unwaveringly correct. But let me just say that I don't agree with much of what you've said, and that is my right (wrong as it may be!).

I do find it a bit sad that so many people in our society lack the personal judgement to recognise the difference between Levi Bellfield and some trans woman just wanting to pee in peace.

It's not a matter of opinion.

Everything I have said here is factually correct.

There are male people and there are female people. Fact.

Trans women are birth registered males. Fact.

Humans can't change sex, therefore anyone who was male at birth is still male. Fact.

"Cis" is a nonsense qualifier invented about five minutes ago, which is based on the assumption that there is such a thing as a male woman or a female man. If you don't accept that assumption, you don't need the word "cis" in your vocabulary. Fact.

Very few people who are not trans actually refer to themselves as "cis". Because they don't need to. Fact.

Nobody ever asks the people they are calling "cis" whether they have a gender identity, or consider that they share the same gender identity as trans people of the oppsosite sex. Fact.

PS - please provide some evidence to show that trans women cannot "pee in peace" alongside other penis owners.

PPS - please explain how we are supposed to tell the difference between Levi Bellfield and a male person who believes they have a legitimate reason for wanting to "pee in peace" in the women's toilets.

Chime away!

Third, gender neutral, spaces have always been the most practical solution.

That way you can choose to go into a gender neutral toilet and so can transwomen.

Forcing women into making their own spaces mixed sex, isn't the answer.

I know this is difficult for some people, but can you please try and understand that women are human beings in their own right, with their own needs and wants, and their role is not to be human shields for whichever men demand it.

We are not their service. Radical, I know!

It's almost as if you are gatekeeping transwomanhood!. What are your qualifiers?

Can you just listen to what you're saying.

You are claiming to be able to tell the intention of men.

How can you tell if a man is a predator, is violent, a voyeur, a rapist or a bully?

For the love of God, most women who suffer assault will know the perpetrator, often their husband.

Women meet, date, fall in love with, marry and have children with these men!

If they don't know, how the fuck do you??

Although, I'd have thought you would have a clue by virtue of the fact that they are already wanting to violate women's boundaries.

I think we would all feel a lot happier if we could immediately identify the difference between the evil men who are Levi Bellfields and the decent men who are non rapist murderers, and also identify the nice friendly transwomen busting for a pee and the mean transwomen who want to wank over toilet seats because they get a sexual kick out of it. But we can’t, unless there is a secret sign or code that the nice transwomen are keeping to themselves.

So as women we want to keep ourselves safe by saying we don’t want men of any description in spaces and places where we feel vulnerable or exposed. At least then we would know that men who insisted on muscling in and using our spaces are there because they either don’t respect womens rights , or are there to do us harm or there to humiliate us.

We want to pee in peace too, unfortunately we don’t have the luxury of having options available to us.