'Chestfeeding' to be banned in NHS crackdown

[RoyalCorgi]

Victoria Atkins is going to demand that NHS trusts stop using terms like chestfeeding, according to the Telegraph.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/27/nhs-to-limit-trans-ideology-with-new-constitution/

I should have made myself more clear @OpusGiemuJavlo

On a one to one basis when giving care HCPs can and should use language the patient prefers. Just as they do in other situations with other patients.

However in the wider context of the NHS, patient information publications, magazine articles and so on it is important to use correct language for the reasons I mentioned.

If I met Freddy McConnell I would adjust my language accordingly.
But in the context of describing how she thought she might still be able to breastfeed the meaning of my words would be lost if the reader thought I was referring to a man.
The same problem applies with newspapers describing criminals as women.

An ideological reason, Jesus! I don’t accept for a single moment that telling the TRUTH by calling a breast a breast will destroy anyone. If being pregnant and giving birth, the most female thing anyone can do doesn’t destroy her then calling her a woman and her breast just that won’t destroy her either. It’s just more gaslighting,

I'd add, should a trans man be diagnosed with breast cancer really which is the more traumatic word to hear? Breast or cancer?

Should breast cancer services change all the language for fear of upsetting the occasional woman who deludes herself she is a man? While actual men who get breast cancer just get on with it?

Should all the literature, patient information, academic studies erase the word breast so as not to upset someone who doesn't like the word?

And substituting the word chest would be very dangerous and misleading. How to describe a locally advanced breast cancer infiltrating the chest wall? It all gets very silly.

Linking an excellent paper which clearly describes the importance of using clear language for anyone who hasn't seen it.
A very useful paper.

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgwh.2022.818856/full

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Thank goodness, this is well overdue. I can't believe anyone thought this disgusting nonsense was OK.

Feels like there is finally some sunshine peeking through the clouds!

Common sense and Truth prevails, hurrah!!!

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I understand that enabling men to feed babies drug induced lactate is not allowed in the NHS as it is experimental ie not beneficial and potentially harmful to the baby ( so any NHS Dr who enables can face GMC action). I am linked to a group that has been doing NHS Fois on this- so far none of the Trusts contacted have said they have done it (haven't contacted all of them though) and I understand it is 'against NHS protocols' . However just as the NHS in England is addressing this issue, (though this may halt if Labour get in?) FOIs in Wales NHS Trusts suggest they plan to start it!

Here is the post from Freddy McConnell expressing sadness at not being able to breastfeed and blaming the cis-normative surgeon for not spelling out the consequences of a double mastectomy to her. Perhaps she didn't understand what "top surgery" was?

Not sure why she is complaining about the nipples not being attached. They are clearly present in some photos.

Women who have breast reductions are usually (not always) unsuccessful at breastfeeding too. Depending on the extent of the surgery and the amount of tissue removed the nipples are relocated which obviously severs the connection with the milk ducts assuming milk producing tissue remains.

Imagine mutilating yourself like that without even understanding the consequences...
Then trying to blame the surgeon who presumably wouldn't have factored in the possibility that this self styled man, undergoing pretty extreme body modification in order not to look like a woman, would end up on a maternity ward.

@Chariothorses

Are you sure NHS trusts aren't doing this?
Wasn't it Brighton that was at the centre of newspaper reports recently?

The Rainbow Badge scheme specifically asks if maternity units have guidance to support a "non-carrying parent" to breast/chest feed. (I suppose this could refer to a lesbian partner but I'm not sure if lesbians are doing this to any extent. It couldn't apply to adoption as babies are not sent straight from the maternity ward to adoptive parents and in any case very few newborn babies are adopted these days).

Here is the section from Dorset hospitals accreditation report, they are praised for incorporating guidance based on the work done in Brighton.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/rainbowbadgeeaccreditationrepoo40/response/2532221/attach/3/attachment.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

Sad for mums who can't breastfeed and want to. What is an ongoing risk in the NHS is that the babies of women who take testosterone (as they want to be men) are not always being monitored by the NHS Trust long term.

Pregnant women are usually told to stop taking it for a while because of the risk to their baby but don't always. And apparently testosterone can cause problems with a babies development that may not become clear until they reach puberty. Some of you may have a read a paper (was it by Mermaids?) stating these mums should be allowed to take harmful drugs and damage their babies because parents shouldn't have to be under pressure to have a 'perfect' child. (Compare this to how careful most mums are not to take medicines that may hurt their baby!). Some people are not up to being parents at all as they can't put their child's welfare before their own fantasies.

Freddy wanting others to pretend she is a dad not a mother conflicts with the human and legal rights, and welfare needs, of her children. And in this, the courts have decided that state records accuracy and the child's needs come before validation of the parent's fantasies https://childrenoftransitioners.org/2023/04/10/paperwork/

That's pretty mind blowing 🤯
Parents shouldn't feel pressurised to make sure their child is perfect... No mention of the responsibility to the child whatsoever.
Children really are collateral damage to the fucking male ego in all of this nonsense.

@Chariothorses

There is much information regarding the consequences of in utero exposure to diethylstilbestrol including abnormalities of the genital tract, infertility, miscarriage and other pregnancy related complications and an increased risk of certain cancers.

Without a doubt there will be serious consequences for babies exposed to testosterone, some may not become apparent until adulthood.

Hhmm. I thought my post was one of my more reasonable, calm posts. Wonder why it was deleted.

Maybe it's automatic when I use the words dangerous, deluded and Napoleon?

My point, which I'm going to try and make again, without really knowing why it was deleted, is that we don't have to accommodate the language of an ideology which many people, including me (not generalising HQ), feel is harmful, just because some of its proponents are vulnerable.

And I'm quite certain healthcare professionals are trained to amend their language to make their patients as comfortable as possible. And if avoiding the word breast as part of that, then I'm certain that's what they will do.

It doesn't mean that the ideology should be accommodated by amending the language of policy and leaflets, etc.

They can be, and I'm sure are, personally accommodated, on a one to one basis, if they are traumatised by the word breast.

And actually, I should imagine the entire issue is going to be petering out over the next few years.

It will be such a rarity that it wouldn't even occur to people to change their language to accommodate it.

@ FannyCann
(Tried to PM you but didn't work).

No not sure re NHS Trusts- FOI responses I've seen suggest battle between trans activist staff and evidence based care/ safeguarding. Every mumsnetter could help by sending an FOI to their own local Trust!

Just checked my emails @Chariothorses

I'll pm you - later this evening, I can't do it on my phone and need my laptop.

I’m a man who had to attend breast clinic for tests on a lump on my left breast. I was expected to cope with this slightly weird experience. No-one baby talked to me about a lump on my chest. I was treated respectfully as an adult man presenting with potentially significant symptoms. The trans people I know are perfectly capable of handling normal medical terminology, and it does them no good if their discomfort with physical reality is pandered to.

Men have breast tissue (hence they can get breast cancer) so this was always bollocks and stirring to get a reaction. My trust has never used this phrase.

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https://ugc-assets.mumsnet.com/images/202404/large-zmHRT2ksgDboMoN0aiIfztQTYYwdrNwcCn2ALCFZ.jpg

@FannyCann discussed the content of this nonsensical piece of paper. There is also an annoying typo/ non-English word in the phrase
"The service has clinical guidelines which are inclusive of cis-gender, trans and non-binary people, but they do not explicably mention sexual orientation".

I used to work in the NHS. They were never particularly accurate with their language in written documents and were very keen on using obfuscatory acronyms and popular phrases that had no real meaning (for example, popular management speak extracted from a self-help book on how to be a great manager and foisted on the staff such as "only one person out of the 30 of you can go to this Training, but that one person will cascade it down to everybody else when they return").

I have never seen the word "explicably" used before, though.

Very good, worth reading the whole thing. All the points made in this thread ⬆️regarding language, the objectification and reduction of women and mothers to "non-men" et cetera, and the confusing nature of language that excludes women and girls, are thoroughly, clearly and objectively covered in this article.

Fantastic article, thanks for posting it.

"It is important to note that when thinking about perinatal provision the patient cohort would be trans men not trans women".

And that actually needs to be said?