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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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39
EmpressaurusOfCats · 20/04/2024 06:23

And also pretty clear which side is making her feel unsafe. The article mentions security advice, I hope she’s also got protection.

Igneococcus · 20/04/2024 06:33

Yes, and still the both-siders will prattle on, I bet.

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 20/04/2024 06:45

I said this on the social murder thread and I’m not surprised

It’s not ‘both sides’ as much as that part is glossed over

SpringLobelia · 20/04/2024 06:48

Well. That was a very interesting read. Her assessment of Dawn Butler is pretty damning IMO.

GenderBlender · 20/04/2024 07:22

I hope that woman gets a damehood pretty damn quick. She deserves to be sainted.

WagnersFourthSymphony · 20/04/2024 07:36

But but buuuut, it's in The Times, which just proooves the continuing cowardice of the left wing press she's on the other side of history.

As for Dawn Butler et al, I reckon some people's brains clamp shut at any hint of a threat to a treasured belief.

Arise, Dame Hilary Cass!

endofthelinefinally · 20/04/2024 07:38

This is really shocking. I wonder if the BBC will mention it?
I hope this won't mean that nobody will undertake any further reviews, particularly of the treatment of over 16 year olds.

RedToothBrush · 20/04/2024 07:38

Igneococcus · 20/04/2024 06:33

Yes, and still the both-siders will prattle on, I bet.

The article itself does it.

Cass says:
The physician, 66, who has spoken about the toxic debate around the issue, also revealed that she had been sent “vile” abusive emails and been given security advice to help keep her safe.

Of her critics, Cass said: “I have been really frustrated by the criticisms, because it is straight disinformation. It is completely inaccurate.

“It started the day before the report came out when an influencer put up a picture of a list of papers that were apparently rejected for not being randomised control trials.

“That list has absolutely nothing to do with either our report or any of the papers.

“If you deliberately try to undermine a report that has looked at the evidence of children’s healthcare, then that’s unforgivable. You are putting children at risk by doing that.”

Cass explicitly states that the issue has been around disinformation from pro-trans activists unhappy at the report saying things they don't want to hear and the clinical decision to remove low quality research papers from the review for being substandard and below the minimum level expected for an academic study.

The Times then goes on to say the following stating 'both sides' in the opening sentence, but when you read what Cass says herself, there's no both sides about it.

Cass said she was pleased that, for the most part, both sides in the debate over the treatment of children with gender dysphoria had not “weaponised” her report. But she has still had to deal with a “pretty aggressive” response from some, particularly those in activist groups. She is also staying away from Twitter/X.

Cass said: “There are some pretty vile emails coming in at the moment. Most of which my team is protecting me from, so I’m not getting to see them.” Some of them contained “words I wouldn’t put in a newspaper”, she said.

She added: “What dismays me is just how childish the debate can become. If I don’t agree with somebody then I’m called transphobic or a Terf [trans-exclusionary radical feminist].”

Cass said the abuse spiked every time the review said something “people don’t like”.

So her issue has been from 'activist groups'. There's not particularly any organised gender critical activist groups. There are the likes of sex matters and the LGB Alliance but these have been very relieved by the report. And ironically reason there aren't particularly any gender critical activist groups is precisely because of the hostility and abuse women have faced...

Then it states:

Online discussion hardened following her interim report, in 2022, and the selection of Liz Truss as Tory Party leader and prime minister, she said. “That was when the debate got more aggressive and people got into bunkers, then the online furore heats up.”

“I’m much, much more upset and frustrated about all this disinformation than I am about the abuse. The thing that makes me seethe is the misinformation.”

One of the key things that the gender critical side has been seeking to establish from the word go, has been a recognition of the seek amount of deliberate misinformation that has been peddled and the aim has been to shine 'sunlight' onto this. The desire has been for evidence lead decision making which has been smeared as 'anti-trans' throughout.

I find it stunning even at this stage despite the words coming out of Hilary Cass's mouth, we still are being told it's 'both sides'.

Can I just say, in a debate that is desperate for evidence based decisions can we please have evidence of the degree this is 'both sides' because actually this matters at this point.

Is this an extremist issue? Should we start looking at it and discussing it in these terms? And if it is, can we please identify the players in this rather than giving a vague 'activist group', because of we know these are members of activist groups, perhaps we'd like to name them as being problematic. At this point, Cass is literally saying they are a risk to the health of children.

It then goes on to say, again explicitly, what the suppression of data for adult services was all about

Cass also revealed that the Tavistock clinic had refused to co-operate with the review by not handing over data on detransitioners who had been examined by a psychiatrist.

The review team wanted to assess what risk factors in a patient’s history could possibly be linked to detransition. A consultant who had carried out an audit of information from Gids patients had agreed to give it to the Cass team.

But Cass said: “We asked the Tavistock to have it and they wouldn’t give it to us. It was very disappointing.”

So yes, it's all about detransitioners. Y'know the detransitioners who are supposed to exist. The ones that could consent, and absolutely understood what transitioning was all about and weren't missold transition and weren't under 'undue pressure' to consent, but then detransitioned.

Something still is very wrong here, that the Times still can't bring itself to name the problem and state that actually there is an extremist cult issue with pro-trans activist groups which has led to it being impossible to have evidence based care for children and when a problem was identified those same activists have done and continue to do as much as possible to suppress this and intimidate and abuse anyone who asks the right ethical question.

When are we going to start saying there's is an extremist problem amongst pro-trans activists?

Noicant · 20/04/2024 07:40

It’s so frustrating that we can’t have a society where people can publish research without being in fear for their safety. A lot of this is basically letting little things slide so people feel increasingly emboldened. If you’ve got away with yelling and intimidating normal women in person and hounding them on-line then doing it to Cass won’t hold any fears for you. The police and politicians have failed miserably. It does feel like they protect those who shout loudest, it gives a red light for the most appalling behaviour.

It’s like the thread on the police ticking of that man for being Jewish. If you just arrested and charged these people for the smallest violation they would never get to the point of outright harassment and violence.

LoobiJee · 20/04/2024 07:44

“She singled out GenderGP, a Singapore-based firm founded by Dr Helen Webberley, a British medic, which continues to advertise puberty blocking injections. Cass claimed the care offered “certainly doesn’t come anywhere near anything one would recognise as adequate in terms of a proper assessment and exploration”.”

334bu · 20/04/2024 07:46

Thank you for share token.

LoobiJee · 20/04/2024 07:52

This is disgraceful.

“Cass revealed that six clinics had thwarted her review by refusing to co-operate with research into the long-term impact of prescribing puberty blockers and sex hormones. She described their failure to share data as “co-ordinated” and “ideologically driven”.
^^
She told The Times that during her review she had held a “really difficult” meeting with the clinics. They accused the review team of taking up their “valuable time”, she claimed.”

LoobiJee · 20/04/2024 07:54

This suggests that the position on harm could be even worse than indicated in the report.

Cass also revealed that the Tavistock clinic had refused to co-operate with the review by not handing over data on detransitioners who had been examined by a psychiatrist.
^^
The review team wanted to assess what risk factors in a patient’s history could possibly be linked to detransition. A consultant who had carried out an audit of information from Gids patients had agreed to give it to the Cass team.
^^
But Cass said: “We asked the Tavistock to have it and they wouldn’t give it to us. It was very disappointing.””

Soontobe60 · 20/04/2024 07:56

It’s absolutely abhorrent that people like Dawn Butler have used their position to attack what is a vital document just because some TRA twat on Twitter has spouted words that are proveably nonsense. That shows how far down the ideology rabbit hole she has run. Shame on her.
Hilary Cass is an absolute shero - she would have known full well the impact her final report would have and yet she stood strong and delivered a very difficult message.

Mytholmroyd · 20/04/2024 08:00

She is a remarkable woman. Even the YP which seems to have finally realised the issues was spouting the both sides rubbish the other day - I wrote to the editor - because he asked for responses - and told him it was untrue and entirely a different level of abuse coming from one side.

borntobequiet · 20/04/2024 08:01

They are shameless, traducing and threatening an estimable and diligent professional woman for doing the job she was asked to do.

littlbrowndog · 20/04/2024 08:16

She is a remarkable woman

I like this from moley

Hilary Cass Interview in the Times
CorruptedCauldron · 20/04/2024 08:38

Hilary Cass did her job with integrity and compassion. Now she’s afraid to catch a bus. Absolutely shameful that she has to fear for her personal safety.

Dawn Butler must not be allowed to get away with spreading misinformation about the report.

EasternStandard · 20/04/2024 08:39

CorruptedCauldron · 20/04/2024 08:38

Hilary Cass did her job with integrity and compassion. Now she’s afraid to catch a bus. Absolutely shameful that she has to fear for her personal safety.

Dawn Butler must not be allowed to get away with spreading misinformation about the report.

Dawn Butler is a danger. As is Moyle. I dread more politicians along those lines after the GE

menopausalmare · 20/04/2024 08:44

A minor point but why does James Beale feel the need to put Hilary's age? I often see this when men write about women but not the other way round.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 20/04/2024 08:46

That's shameful. I suppose silent Starmer will, as usual, fail to challenge his MPs telling complete untruths about the report.

LizzieSiddal · 20/04/2024 08:46

Fantasitc that Dr Cass has given this interview and is highlighting her distress and anger at the deliberate misinformation. It’s important this is rigorously spoken about.

Radio 4’s More Or Less should be interested in investigating this. Also The BBC had a “misinformation” correspondent Mariana Spring, so they should be right on it. I won’t hold my breath!

FrancescaContini · 20/04/2024 08:48

GenderBlender · 20/04/2024 07:22

I hope that woman gets a damehood pretty damn quick. She deserves to be sainted.

Yes, me too. I am sorry to hear that she feels unsafe and have no doubt that the people making her feel this way are the people who claim to feel “unsafe” if they’re “misgendered”.

💐 for Hilary

WarriorN · 20/04/2024 08:50

Bloody hell

The physician, 66, who has spoken about the toxic debate around the issue, also revealed that she had been sent “vile” abusive emails and been given security advice to help keep her safe.

Illustrating exactly which side is the toxic one

"If you deliberately try to undermine a report that has looked at the evidence of children’s healthcare, then that’s unforgivable. You are putting children at risk by doing that.”

Anyone refusing to comply with the Cass review is actively blocking child safeguarding and is a danger to children.

I'm glad she's said that.

I wonder if she would write differently in the report now, with these post report experiences.

We do need more reviews and an inquiry and it should include examples of idiocy and negative reviews of Cass report. As these people are putting more children at risk.

PriOn1 · 20/04/2024 08:54

endofthelinefinally · 20/04/2024 07:38

This is really shocking. I wonder if the BBC will mention it?
I hope this won't mean that nobody will undertake any further reviews, particularly of the treatment of over 16 year olds.

It will likely be difficult to find someone to take the poisoned challice, that’s absolutely certain. But they have said it will be done and I hope the selection is made soon, because I don’t trust the Labour party to choose someone with Cass’s courage and integrity.

They certainly chose the right woman for this review though. She is wonderful.

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