Hilary Cass Interview in the Times

[Igneococcus]

Depressing that she doesn't feel safe in public anymore:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3121a27a-fd54-46d9-894a-f715de429675?shareToken=323bde6f9666d56951b1eb073ded85b1

If this was ANY other group the police would be stepping in.

In a way, watching the depravity of extreme transactivation burst out, is a good thing.

The drama and hyperbole, violence and threats, have to constantly increase, because they aren't having the desired effect.

I mean look at Willoughby! Once invited onto daytime telly, now screaming spittle filled rants into the void.

It does make it easier for fence sitters to condemn, because it's so off the scale crazy.

I can't help thinking that however prepared she thought she might be, Hilary Cass didn't quite realise the extent of the transactivist framework and quite how insanely driven they are.

Not only will they not give a shiny shit that they're undermining her safeguarding recommendations, their entire goal is to exploit children for their own ends.

It's no good saying how awful their reaction is, you have to ask why it was allowed to happen in the first place. Because it's no accident that children are being sacrificed. It's the whole point.

When the facts contradict the faith, there is a tendency to retreat into conspiracy thinking and extremism, as the faithful huddle together in defensive mode. They feel like they are fighting for their life, thus ramping up the suicide and mortal threat rhetoric. People on the edge do crazy, destructive things. Terrorism is the use of violence or intimidation in order to achieve political aims.

Fae also dismissed DV with this nugget.

Most murder is boring, pedestrian, even accidental stuff. Somewhere between a third and a half result from too much alcohol. A high proportion are domestic violence "gone wrong". A blow struck one time too many: an egg-shell skull.
26/03/2018, 10:08

And then during the initial covid discussions was saying something along the lines that women weren’t likely to be getting covid because women didn’t work in people facing roles. Apparently.

Ever the misogynist. Yet was included in Diva’s top women awards one year. And Tesco sponsored it. Fuckers.

And then during the initial covid discussions was saying something along the lines that women weren’t likely to be getting covid because women didn’t work in people facing roles. Apparently.

What, like nurses?

What a bizarre comment.

The ad ad hominem attacks are bound to set up as they've got fewer avenues to use.

Cass just put a bomb under the suicide claim.
Cass just said that there are activists pushing this AGAINST the weight of medical evidence which DOESN'T support medicalisation.
Cass just destroyed the argument about social transitioning being a neutral act thus crippling inroads into educational establishments.
Cass just exposed the suppression of valuable information by adult clinics over detransition which might blow apart another huge claim by transactivists
Cass just embarassed a whole bunch of politicians sitting on their hands.
Cass imploded the 'just like being gay' bollocks by pointing out there was a disproportionate number of young lesbians getting caught up in this and it looks a lot like conversion and homophobia.
Cass just raised huge questions about autism and the targeting of autistic kids who perhaps aren't as gillick competent as their peers.
Cass raised the rather ugly question about the sheer number of sexually abused kids who are presenting as trans, and this isn't a great look.
Cass stressed the point that this isn't a homogenus cohort and yet it keeps (hello media) being treated as if it is. This is a heterogenus group with multiple complex, and often unmet, needs. And how we should start seeing this as that rather than under the singular umbrella of trans.
Cass has highlighted the 'toxicity' of the conversation and then has been subject of targeted attacks on Hilary Cass herself despite her reputation and status as a respected and professional individual who has used standard approved and respected technics.
Cass has show up the quacks and charltans for the quacks and charltans they are and this has lead to calls from cross party sources to tighten up on this and to stop the dangerous and exploitative grifters. Webberley has now been singled out as part of this movement by Hilary Cass herself.
Cass has revealed that gender critical groups and women were fucking right to be concerned all along and that the whistleblowers should be thanked not have careers destroyed.

Where does that leave trans activists to go?

One of the few places they have, is to double down on misinformation and to step up the ad hominem attacks. Meanwhile all that happens is the above just becomes more apparent and the fact that group with extremist tendancies becomes all the more obvious.

KEEP GOING.

It needs to fully collaspe in on itself under the weight of its own bullshit. Cos thats what cults do and this becomes more and more cultlike as it slips into the realms of conspiracy theories.

I think IW absolutely cannot stand that women don't have to do anything to be women. So unfair when he's made all that effort.

Fantastic post @RedToothBrush

Yeah there's definitely a sense of bitterness but even after all that people call him a man.

Nurses.

Doctors.

Healthcare assistants.

Carers in care and nursing homes.

Childminders and teachers for the children of key workers.

Supermarket workers.

Cleaners (everywhere).

Not a woman among them, apparently. 🙄

Terrorism tends to be the outlet for economic or social injustice and hardship that has been neglected by political power from grass roots sources. This CAN be state sponsored and encouraged against outside players as part of foreign policy in turn, but the origins tend to be some sort of genuine injustice which doesn't get solved and festers and grows.

This movement is different. These groups did the opposite. It used the framework of social justice and exploited it to punch down on grassroots. This is authoritarianism. It used state and corporate power against the population and in breach of their lawful rights. This is about the abuse of that state and corporate power. Which is why Human Rights were established in the first place. To protect against abuses of institutionalised power against the vulnerable. So this isn't terrorism. This is political extremism within state instruments and structures being misused due to a lack of due diligence to balance and hold power to account where appropriate. This is about a failure of structures to identify unethical and poor safeguarding practices. Indeed discrediting safeguarding was a feature not a bug of strategy in order to achieve aims.

Know and understand the difference and how we deal with both in similar but also crucially different ways.

The reaction to the Review has been wild. I'm finding it boggling - but then I am in agreement with the basic idea that there should be evidenced-based care for trans identified children and young people (and adults).

But I am wondering what my response would be if the report had found good evidence from the same mix of high and medium quality studies that puberty blockers improve life outcomes overall for the majority of patients - albeit with some instances of negative outcomes around bone density or prolonged disphoria/ confusion (as we know there are at the least). And it had found that instant social affirmation was the best approach (perhaps because for example it being a generally lower stakes thing would make desisting lower stakes?)

I'm not arguing for that BTW, just trying to hypothesise for my wider point. Which is that I for one might have felt very challenged and would have still found it hard to let go of my resistance to mass gender affirmation both for children (on the basis of competemce) and adults (on the basis of impact on women in policy terms) because my basic position on trans - namely that you can't change sex, there are no innate inborn genders - is not challenged by even finding that gender affirming health care leads to the best outcomes.

I think I would and will still accept that gender affirming health care is the best approach for gender distressed individuals (if that is where the long term data leads) But I would be advocating for essentially third space accommodations because I just don't and can never see myself accepting that being a female body is not existentially, socially, and politically meaningful; and that the difference between myself and someone who has experienced sex reassignment surgery is not immaterial or unimportant in social, political and existential terms.

All of this is just a wind up to say that I can very well see people on my side of the argument beclowning themselves in the way the TRA side has post Cass. And there are far right supremacist groups that would have threatened her if the report had found in favour of the trans-kids-now side.

Looking at the reaction from TRAs, it's clear that they are so ideologically committed, no evidence would change their view. And I'm wondering what evidence would change people's minds on our side. I actually can't think of any that would change my fundamental positions on sex and gender.

That is fantastic Red.

When you list all the implications of Cass's report, it becomes evident that it's much more far reaching than just 'stop puberty blockers now.'

It's who are the children who are targeted, why are they targeted, and who is doing the targeting?

Children have been absolutely essential to this adult, male led ideology.

Cass has shown how these children are harmed.

And now TRA reaction to that is showing everybody why.

What did he mean? It's so bizarre.

You forget one crucial point.

Your discomfort and your concerns about the whole issue were build on the fact you RECOGNISED what was being said and promoted by trans activists was not reflecting the evidence NOR was it reflecting the outcomes which were known. You KNEW there was a problem with detransitioners.

Ultimately anything that was evidence based would NEVER be able to uphold the claims that tras were saying. All Cass was, was legitimising everything that women had diligently found out and were exposing via other means, in a report which was robust and has methodology which is difficult to question.

So you'd never have been so concerned and so worried if none of this hadn't have been present. And had Cass come to different conclusions, then you'd have had much bigger concerns about medicine and health care in this country than trans issues because of the implications of ideology and lack of robust health research...

Don't lose site of this and try and draw up false equivalence whilst trying to empathetise and understand whats going on with trans activists now.

We are only in this position because due processes were not being followed as they should and its been flaming obvious to those who have scratched the surface and have understanding of what protocols should be followed.

The thing is. We already had the evidence. That was the reason for the pushback in the first place. Grown arse men forcing themselves into women's spaces, colonising their sport, and harming their children.

And that was why mumsnet was so important. We didn't have to have a report, when we had enough women, gathered in one place, telling us what was happening to their own children. And how gender stereotyping was a cornerstone.

It's just outright lying now isn't it. It's desperate pleading "Believe me, believe me, believe me. Against the evidence of your own eyes, believe me".

"In less than a week, the Tories culture wars driven Cass Report has fallen apart. Set up to remove UK trans health, it’s been shown to be neither evidence based or independent - despite Right Wing media and @WesStreeting @YvetteCooperMP @UKLabour cheering it. Embarrassing."

https://twitter.com/IndiaWilloughby/status/1781640685503840758

Conspiracy theories around Cass herself are shocking. People are losing their minds over this report, it's extraordinary.

Well it hasn’t fallen apart. It’s influencing policy including the stopping of puberty blockers

TRAs are falling apart

Oh dear Lord 🤣🤣🤣

This is gold.

It was here.

https://x.com/forwomenscot/status/1246026549402447873?s=46&t=HTxp6zC_d4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

Sorry can’t copy and paste.

All Cass was, was legitimising everything that women had diligently found out and were exposing via other means, in a report which was robust and has methodology which is difficult to question.

Yep.

And the TRA pushback is the equivalent to getting women arrested for posting ribbons, punching OAPs at rallies, screaming burn it down when women are inside a building meeting, and getting them kicked off Twitter for saying yeah that's him.

They've got fuck all. They always had fuck all.

and now everyone knows it.

There was a recent post from a poster imploring women to ‘Please think!’ and they posted that crap about the studies being ignored. This was a poster who also then told us that only trans people and those with ‘trans children’ should be discussing this issue.

There is so much desperation. And a lot of it is now showing very clearly the emotional manipulation and the distinct lack of fact, of evidence and of even logic or rational thinking. But it was always there. It now has no protective layer after that has been peeled away.

Such weird comments.

And most infuriating of all are the women who prove that gender is a load of sexist bollocks by going around in short hair & trousers while refusing to identify as non binary or trans.

There's support for the Cass Report from Professor Alexis Jay who chaired the UK's Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse in England and Wales.
She's pointed out that "similar issues of toxic debate and fear of professionals to speak up that let children down in Rotherham also run through the findings in the Cass Review"

"Nothing should be done except in the child's best interests and welfare. That must involve, as Dr Cass has stated, a holistic understanding of the child or young person's needs, supported by robust evidence of the effectiveness of any intervention the various parties concerned recommend."

Good to see her intervention as a senior social work professional with outstanding professional credentials:

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,scot-who-led-rotherham-inquiry-warns-of-parallels-with-cass-review