The Scottish Greens are revolting

[ArabellaScott]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/furious-lgbt-scottish-greens-say-party-could-leave-government-over-nhs-puberty-blockers-pause

At least, the Rainbow Greens are!

There's a petition for the Greens to leave Government, if anyone finds it please post the link or how to find it!

I think this shows the double edge sword of a small niche organisation becoming mainstream. Whether it’s women building DV and rape crisis centres, or a single issue political party. Once you start getting bigger and ceding control to people who haven’t been at the core of the organisations beliefs and actions then it becomes vulnerable to people manipulating it for their own ends. You could probably add stonewall and mermaids to the same category.

To be fair to the Green Party, being a political party meant they had to have policies which covered all political issues, not just environmental issues.

As a party firmly self identified on the progressive social justice left, they were pretty much inevitably going to fall for gender ideology, which successfully marketed itself, in a true style over substance way, as a progressive left issue ( despite being deeply regressive, as we all know).

A small party is easy for activists to overtake.

A small party is easy for activists to overtake

True. Talking a step back I’m interested to see what will happen to the Nationalist political movement in Scotland. The SNP went from a bunch of jokers to suddenly being credible and now rapidly sliding back towards joker status. Was this because of a true groundswell of Scottish desire for independence, or because voters were fed up with Scottish Labour but wouldn’t vote for the Tories so tried something new that was still left of centre?

Alba have an opportunity to step forward as the next credible Nationalist party, but I get the impression that they are regarded as even bigger cranks than early SNP.

I'm no longer really plugged into Scottish politics, having lived in England for almost 20 years. Bearing that in mind, Alba always seemed to me to be full of the crank wing of SNP, kind of the Nat Momentum (not much offence intended to Momentum, sorry not sorry).

You are out of touch if you think the SNP aren’t a full on crank wing of themselves.

I am out of touch! I think you're right, that they've completely lost it (to the extend they ever had 'it')

These people are wicked, wicked as in evil.. 'Social Murder', 'Stop Killing Trans Kids'... what on earth do they think that they are doing, trying to recruit followers of the cult into a new type of cult so that they can turn around and say 'I told you so'? So dangerous.

Well they're a busted flush now.

@MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving

Like the gender ideology movement. the SNP have been absolute masters at marketing themselves. Again, real style over substance stuff. They created an easy enemy in Westminster, that they could deflect all blame onto (and have been blessed with a Tory Government in Westminster) , a simple and welcomed message that Scotland is strong and capable, and crafted an image that they, and Scotland, are progressive and progressing a better society in Scotland. Throw in a few popular policies, some which were needed ( reform of eviction laws) but which are essentially tinkering at the edges rather than delivering on the major challenges Scotland faces.

They have had an awful long time in power and, in contrast to their marketing, have delivered very little, so little that NS actually named the baby boxes as one of her major achievements in power in her resignation speech.

This.

The UK had 10 years of Labour by this point and people wanted change. In England the only alternative was the Tories (Tory/lib coalition) and in Scotland that would never happen, so SNP was the only viable option. I don’t think it was based on support for independence at all, but wanting Labour out.

The Tories in Westminster though was a boon for the SNP in Scotland and is what kept them in power for so long and the same with the Tories because Labour would never get enough MPs in Westminster without the Scottish vote, so would be unlikely to be able to make the numbers to win an election. So they had a weird symbiotic relationship. It’s no coincidence that both parties are set to lose this next election and Labour takes both their places.

The question of Independence will disappear…for the moment

What do they mean by 'social murder'??

There is some good news the ferries being built in Turkey are on time, high spec. And will be ready in 2025. There's only two of them but hey it's an improvement.

I think that they mean that because of Cass, Sandyford have now paused PBs for new patients that 'trans' people will suffer premature death - i.e will take their own lives. So 'social murder' resulting from what they see as bad policy and practice. They are bonkers, really bonkers.

There is enough MSPs to trigger the vote for sure [31 Tories plus 1 Alba] but to win a no confidence vote they will need all of Labour and 14 SNP rebels [10 rebel if the Lib Dems abstain.

Great politics to trigger the vote even if the vote is lost as it will keep Harvie lies in focus. Plus it will force SNP on defensive.

PH says he'll resign as leader of the party if they pull out of the coalition.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8c64da04-9fb0-42e0-8861-dc80f47ce3f5?shareToken=633922f4b38ccd9f642e2b2497b8a3de

If he is not getting a ministerial salary, why bother?

Patrick Harvie, Non-Leader. Has a ring to it!

It sounds great (is great), but then you look at the alternatives….

I grew up in a country which almost always has coalition governments. If you are in coalition you need to be prepared to follow through with your threat to leave the coalition if a certain line is crossed, it's a bit like parenting really.

Thanks. They absolutely love hyperbole don’t they? It’s like some sort of catechism for them.

Not only are TRAs detached from reality, they actually seem to glory in it. Their complete refusal to engage with an evidence base is quite the wonder to behold.

Here’s a quote for them ‘What you believe with all your heart is not necessarily the truth’.

Jackie Ballie Deputy leader in Scottish Labour yesterday in Holyrood continued to attack the SNP strongly over the Cass Report as she has done for a while.

The Cass report is evidence based, informed by expert clinicians and by those with lived experience. It must be treated seriously.

The Scottish Government need to outline how the recommendations of the review will be implemented in Scotland as a matter of urgency.
Scottish Government response to Cass Review is 'sop' to Greens, Labour claims
https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,scottish-government-response-to-cass-review-is-sop-to-greens-labour-claims

It looks like Scottish Labour will be going into the election on this pro Cass position which will open a gulf between them and SNP and Scottish Greens. It is too easy a target not to use it. If they don't use Cass as a weapon then that leaves the Tories with a huge advantage. Of course plenty in Scottish Labour see this as an opportunity to out manoeuvre the TRA faction in their own party too.

So the Scottish Greens have a HUGE problem. With Labour going after them too they have nowhere to hide they just have to rely on the SNP wanting to keep them around as a useful shield, rather than thinking the Greens are dragging them down [the actual reality].

Something has to give.

The only reason SNP are in bed with the Greens is for the majority in Holyrood - it allows them to effectively ignore parliament. That and the SNPs internal suppression of dissent allows them to be autocratic and ignore democracy. List/PR systems make this worse as politicians then represent the party and are chosen by the party not voters (at the top of the lists). The Greens, of course, won’t get anywhere by FPTP at the general election and the MSPs are list MSPs appointed onto the list by the party and elected often by a very small percentage or voters who probably think they are voting for environmental issues.

As well as an alternative independence party, there also needs to be an alternative environmental party

The point of a pressure group party - IDK the name for that, really - is that they are supposed to exist to exert pressure on government. The Greens have rolled over on every environmental issue in order to stay in power.

The point of a minority pressure group is not to hold onto power, but to prod and poke and hold power to account.

I have to say, I was in favour of PR but having seen how it works out in practice through Scotland, I am much less in favour of it now.

It seems all great on paper - parties get MPs in relation to the votes they achieved - seems totally fair - but in practice it means that small parties with little electoral support for their policies end up wielding power and influencing policy far in excess of their support within the population.