KjK "insane rant" thread 2

[AdamRyan]

First thread filled up just as it was getting interesting

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5036512-kjks-insane-rant

So let's keep it going. My characterisation if the two basic positions are:

1)KJK is a stone cold legend, haters gonna hate but many women will give her cash to bathe in champagne

2. KJK is taking right wing positions for clicks and cash, most recently criticising a doctors conference to stay relevant.

Happy to discuss further. There are some particular posts I want to respond to which I will c&p below

The Conservatives did all that! I don't want people to stop talking about it at all, it's specifically the characterisation it's a left wing issue I object to. It isn't. It's all politics and KJK does women a disservice by boiling it down to a left/right issue.

Yesterday *crone" asked me for a right wing source showing CPAC was far right. I gave one.
Rather than discuss that we are now diverting on to "but Goodwins law!"

nefertiti asked a fair enough question. It speaks volumes you are attacking her for asking it, rather than just answering.

Nobody is being attacked

Nobody is answering a reasonable question.

I guess what counts as reasonable is open to interpretation.

Where do you think CPAC are on your spectrum?

A theoretical question isn't reasonable? Why not?

Um ... hello?

I'd say any question is reasonable. People refusing to answer is basically a demonstration they don't want to for some reason.

Why don't you want to engage with the thought experiment?

Because I have no interest in thought experiments.

Looks like we are heading for thread 3 then. If only to show the lengths people go to, to avoid answering simple questions.

What's the point of your thought experiment?

Nobody owes you an answer Adam.

OK. That's a shame. They are a good way of exploring the logical implications of a position.

Thought experiments are how women progressed in a world determined to say "that never happens!" and cover up when it did.

An conversation about actually, how might that happen, what would the evidence look like, how could we identify it was useful (and enabled womens groups to use the FOIA to ask the right questions and find out it very much did happen).

Are you going to comment on the link you asked for? I spent some time getting that for you, it's a bit rude to ignore it.

@AdamRyan

OK. That's a shame. They are a good way of exploring the logical implications of a position.

They are, and that is what I was aiming for. I did think the posters on this board had the ability to do just that, but I only received insults, jokes and memes in response. All obfuscation.

Given Truss and Farage appearing at their events, probably somewhere a bit right of batshit Tories.

I come from a family that got a kicking from some fascists about, oh, 80 years ago, so I am quite alert to the charmers. I'm not a fan of Farage, but I don't think he's a Fascist.

The Farage one? What is there to comment about? It's just Farage saying the same stuff he always says.

Morning all! We're all ignoring nonsense right?

The Conservatives did all that!
Tell that to Starmer, because he seems to think that the GRA and The Equality Act with the PC of GR are labour policies.

Everyone knows its not a transgenderism isnt a left wing concept. The idea that women as a class can be redefined to include men is about as far from left wing politics as its possible to get.

But it isnt right wing either. Conservativism is protecting the established position. How is the idea that a man can 'become' a woman conservative?

Its you who are trying to make it political. Lots of people here, who are truly against these policies had no issue calling out May just as they are calling out Starmer now. Including KJK. She didnt wait for a labour government to highlight this madness.

Here is your question crone.
My reply:

Here you go. I would characterise the content of this as "far right":

• shadowy threat from an "extremist fringe" who are "bullying and threatening democracy"
• need to "defend the nation" and the underpinning of our culture, Judeo-Christianity
• threatening WW3 if Trump isn't re-elected

https://www.gbnews.com/news/nigel-farage-cpac-washington-trump-extremist-frince

It is very hard for me to see that as anything other than far right.

I am unsure from your answer as to whether your position is this is not far right rhetoric, or whether you think it is but are discounting is because Farage.

The "because Farage" explanation is a red herring because we are discussing whether CPAC is far right. I'd argue by headlining this kind of speech (regardless of who gives it) that shows they are.

If you don't agree that's far right, then I'm interested how much further someone needs to go. You said upthread BNP were far right. Farage is basically saying exactly what the BNP used to say.

I personally don't think Farage could go any further without breaching the law. He will be very careful not to do that, because it won't help his cause if he is prosecuted.

Well then "some of you" shouldn't get snarky with the people who do care, and jump on any threads about it to say they are smearing KJK and posting lies about her. Which is where this started.

An "I can see why you might have concerns, but in my mind that is less of an issue than her message" would be a far more productive way to engage than claiming those of us who do care are anti-right wing, hate thatcherites etc etc.

This thread just gets more polarised and more insane each time I come back 🙃
Its very clear at this point that those on the far left will view anything centrist or slightly right wing, as far right at this point.
No one calls it far right when Japan has policies against mass immigration, but the second it's brought up re; western countries it's a massive far right talking point for some reason.

EDIT; Hit enter by mistake before I was finished typing.

Also fwiw (this is not me declaring my opinion, just something I thought was interesting);
"That's interesting. If (hypothetically) it turned out she was funded by fascists - Nazis - would you care then? Or as long as you get what you want, it's okay?"

Non-hypothetically, actual real life Nazi's were involved heavily with NASA. Not funding, but actual brain power.
Nobody really pipes up about that ever :S
Hell the only reason I know about it is because my DH told me!
https://slate.com/technology/2023/08/nasa-nazi-history-von-braun.html

It feels like it’s only been about 5 minutes since the left wing position was low immigration (for the sake of working class economics) and pro immigration was neo liberal, Reagan shit!

Its very clear at this point that those on the far left will view anything centrist or slightly right wing, as far right at this point.

Really? I think its clear those on the right will view anything centrist as far right.

When Nick Griffin went on question time there were large scale protests and actual condemnation of his views

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1222424/BNPs-Nick-Griffin-jeered-BBC-Question-Time.html

Now, Nigel Farage/Lee Anderson saying the same things is accepted and in fact people claim this is "right" being castigated by "the far left" which appears to include centrist voters like me.

It's a bit like how TRA now apparently means "anyone who says anything other than trans women are men", when TRAs used to mean actual activists refusing to listen to anything other than TWAW, out shouting at women and threatening violence (like the people in Edinburgh at the w/e).

I don't think politics is more polarised. I think right wingers are now asserting their "right not to be offended" if people question their views.