KjK "insane rant" thread 2

[AdamRyan]

First thread filled up just as it was getting interesting

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5036512-kjks-insane-rant

So let's keep it going. My characterisation if the two basic positions are:

1)KJK is a stone cold legend, haters gonna hate but many women will give her cash to bathe in champagne

2. KJK is taking right wing positions for clicks and cash, most recently criticising a doctors conference to stay relevant.

Happy to discuss further. There are some particular posts I want to respond to which I will c&p below

Arrggh darnit, I should have added a poll option

Both your options seem disparaging, to a greater or lesser extent.
Where is the option to say KJK is great, end of.

Only interesting to you.

"More tea, Viper?"

Total bollocks. Neither of those positions reflects anyone sensible.

I’m not sure it was just getting interesting really. It’s been the same tedious circular arguments for dozens of pages now.

What did Kellie-Jay do to you @AdamRyan?

Because you’ve spent a truly heroic amount of time, effort and emotional energy trying to paint her as a grifter and not-so-secretly far right? I mean if I despised someone as much as you clearly despise KJK, I think I would avoid all mention of her to avoid being triggered and sucked into MN arguments all day.

BackCats · Today 16:37

I find it really tiresome the whole ‘far right’ labelling about just about anything.

If you dare suggest the police might sit on their hands instead of taking action on something because they fear accusations of racism, that means you are far right.

Its like suggesting that transgender status sometimes leads to preferential treatment by law enforcement or weaker DBS safeguards, means you are far right too.

God forbid anyone looks into things, turns things over, makes up their own minds, concluding that well-intentioned diversity and inclusion measures can sometimes have negative unintended consequences.

It seems that any deviation from brainlessly consuming and regurgitating the ‘allowed’ line is ‘far right’.

This groupthink bound by the fear of ‘far right’ accusations not only leads to dangerous consequences (eg- breaking safeguards, threatening free speech, etc), it is also REALLY BORING. It makes people brainless, tedious, whingy, unoriginal and devoid of all spark. It murders threads too. 🥱

I find it really tiresome and boring that a difference of opinion is put down to "group think" and a knee jerk "far right accusation".

I'm not too bothered if you think my opinion is tedious, whingy and unoriginal. That's probably because lots of other people hold it too.

If you dare suggest the police might sit on their hands instead of taking action on something because they fear accusations of racism, that means you are far right.

Occams razor - the simplest explanation is usually right. The police tend not to be too concerned about being seen as racist and misogynist. They are terrible at dealing with sexual crimes against women.

Therefore there is no need to bring in "scared of racism" with no evidence for it.

It is a far right position because the far right are into "great replacement theory" and Muslims taking over the world.

I am aware of this so I flag it. Nothing tp do with group think.

Meanwhile a thread taking a "not FWR approved" position on KJK runs to 40 pages, mostly of deflection and diversion about any perception of her political views. Indicating it's own kind of group think.

Oh fine. You summarise the two positions then. I would be very interested.

Apparently the sign of a good debaters being able to characterise your oponents position

I don't despise her at all.
I find the absolute adoration for her on here disproportionate to what she says and does. That intrigues me.

Also I'm not the one getting triggered. Apart from a bit by the casual islamophobia but that's to be expected, posters can't even see its happening.

Oh fine. You summarise the two positions then. I would be very interested.

For starters, there aren't just two positions. There are a range of opinions.

I do keep bringing up Donnie Darko's Love/Fear line - no-one else seems to like it, but I do.

Anyway, my own view is KJK is flawed, but not half as flawed as her detractors. And she's a massive net positive.

Sure, she's no JKR, but that's a very high bar. Still massively more effective than anyone on this thread - if only anyone cared to create a second thread about any of us...

Sometimes I doubt KJK’s commitment to Sparkle Motion.

tathingscinsel - What interests me is if this a left wing phenomenon or if it happens in conservative circles too? I (like most Mumsnetters) don’t have any experience of anything but left wing activism so can’t make a comparison

Jon Ronson said that a few years ago it used to be left wingers who did the purity spirals/pile ons, on twitter. But now it appears to be more right wingers.

I tend to agree - I think Brexit was the start of it and now it's more right wing people accusing people of making them feel stupid and causing the consequences of e.g. Donald Trump. I personally think that is being inflamed by paid political campaigns which is why I get twitchy about funding sources and transparency. I think some very rich people think the costs of losing e.g. £48m on GB News is worth it to push their own personal agenda.

If I were into one conspiracy theory it would be "dead internet" theory.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Internet_theory

Shame Jon Ronson turned out to be such a …

I’m pretty much with Necessary.

KJK has massive strengths and some flaws.

I don’t agree that you must not question the norms of other cultures and faiths. You’d call that casual Islamophobia, I think.

I think you are probably failing at the ‘free speech for people who say nice things I agree with’ gate, again.

KJK has reached massive audiences and raised visibility hugely. She’s the only one I see active onFB. I can’t understand most of what JCJ says, or at least can’t be bothered to stay awake long enough.

She has a part to play.

Jon Ronson said that a few years ago it used to be left wingers.

If you want to talk about Ronson, I think the word "whinger" would be more apt.

Doesn't Jake Gyllenhall look young! How time flies.

What's everyone having for tea?

No I wouldn't. I call the obsession with "Muslim grooming gangs" on the basis of no evidence islamophobia. And the fact its just repeated as if its a fact. Drives me mad.

I don't. I just found that quite interesting.

Quite shocked the Overton Window Model hasn't been mentioned yet in the previous and now this discussion.
I think what a lot of people are calling "Far Right" in this day and age is rather hyperbolic.
I can't recall where the studies were from (I'll hunt for the if I remember after dinner), but I remember seeing that the left has moved drastically further left and the right has also moved left, but to a less drastic extent.
Yet somehow "right wing talking points" are still viewed as "far right" even though arguably, they're more left leaning than they've ever been.

The left cannot take criticism of itself.
If the left could take criticism, "far right" figures wouldn't be left to be the only ones to talk about things such as "Muslim/Pakistani grooming gangs" Which is exactly KJK's and JB's point.
People ARE afraid to be called racist, transphobic etc.
That's exactly how gender ideology for example has gotten to such a point where TW are allowed in Women's spaces unquestioned until people like JKR or KJK speak out on it.
That's also exactly how those grooming gangs were allowed to go on for so long.
The more ready we are to accept that the left is responsible for these things, the less chance the right have of capitalising on it.
Being so quick to label everything as "far right" is part of the problem imo.
Not everything slightly right leaning is "Literally Hitler".

Spaghetti bolognese (homemade) and garlic flatbread (bought).

Amazed that my post was deleted when I was careful to take the ableist language out of it.

Did you report me, Adam?