Page 2 | Helen Joyce

darada · 2024-03-27T06:33:28+00:00

I just wanted to say how much I love Helen Joyce. For me she's the best thing about this whole sordid trans business. I'd recommend you watch a few of her podcasts on YouTube. The clarity of her thinking and expression, her rationality and her non-tribalism are so refreshing. I also love the fact that with time she's run out of fucks to give and just calls out BS much more directly than her earlier comments. Helen if you lurk here keep up the good work, I have learned a lot from you and we're all lucky to have you on our side in this increasingly important and urgent fight for sanity and our kids' future.

AlisonDonut · 27/03/2024 13:23

God these gender addled grievance gerbils just salivate any time they can quote someone saying something completely sane and try and turn it into 'see she is a nazi'.

They sit there with one hand on the keyboard just poised to leap in to try and show the little women how wrong they are.

It always backfires. Tedius little scrotums.

Emotionalsupportviper · 27/03/2024 13:24

DadJoke · 27/03/2024 11:07

I do hope all the Harry Potter slash fic doesn't turn her trans.

She is a reasonable-sounding voice who has called for a reduction in the number of transgender people, happy or not. It's monstrous. Here is the transcript, in full context.

Helen Joyce: I think that for quite a while now this has not been about consciousness raising. That’s been irrelevant. That was important two or three years ago when there weren’t enough people; but there’ve been enough people to be critical mass, to be funding the, you know, the crowdfunders, to be writing letters to MPs — all that sort of thing — to have a movement, to have support for women — and men, of course: I mean, there’s people like Graham, of course, as well, who’ve got their necks stuck out on this. We can’t win this by saying, you know, there’s 60 X million people in this country and we’ve got to persuade all of them or a great majority of them; we’ve got to get through to the decision makes and

Helen Staniland: Yes.

Joyce: in the meantime, while we’re, while we’re trying to get through to the decision makers, we have to try to limit the harm, and that means reducing or keeping down the number of people who transition, and that’s for two reasons. One of them if that every one of those people is a person who’s been damaged. But the second one is every one of those people is, basically, you know, a huge problem to a sane world; like, if you’ve got people that — whether they’re transitioned; whether they’re happily transitioned; whether they’re unhappily transitioned; whether they’re de-transitioned — if you’ve got people who’ve dissociated from their sex in some way, every one of those people is someone who needs special accommodation in a sane world where we re-acknowledge the, the truth of sex. And, I mean, the people who’ve been damaged by it, the children who’ve been put through this, those people deserve every accommodation we can possibly make, but every one of them is a difficulty,

Staniland: Yes.

Joyce: you know.

Staniland: Yes.

Joyce: and, I mean, I know that sounds heartless: I’m trying to say exactly the opposite of sounding heartless. I’m saying everyone of those people for 50, 60, 70 years is going to need things that the rest of us just don’t need because the rest of us are just our sex. So the, the fewer of those people there are, the better in the sane world that I hope we will reach.

She wasn't suggesting euthanasia, as I am sure you are well aware - what she was suggesting was that proper assessment, and a psychological examination of the underlying motives for wanting to become "trans" would most likely reduce the number of children who progress down this route because they would receive proper mental health care, and would realise that they weren't "trans" at all - just very unhappy and mixed up.

Ultimately this would result in children, whatever their sexuality or body image - being helped to grow up happier and healthier.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 27/03/2024 13:29

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Helleofabore · 27/03/2024 13:42

DadJoke · 27/03/2024 11:07

I do hope all the Harry Potter slash fic doesn't turn her trans.

She is a reasonable-sounding voice who has called for a reduction in the number of transgender people, happy or not. It's monstrous. Here is the transcript, in full context.

Helen Joyce: I think that for quite a while now this has not been about consciousness raising. That’s been irrelevant. That was important two or three years ago when there weren’t enough people; but there’ve been enough people to be critical mass, to be funding the, you know, the crowdfunders, to be writing letters to MPs — all that sort of thing — to have a movement, to have support for women — and men, of course: I mean, there’s people like Graham, of course, as well, who’ve got their necks stuck out on this. We can’t win this by saying, you know, there’s 60 X million people in this country and we’ve got to persuade all of them or a great majority of them; we’ve got to get through to the decision makes and

Helen Staniland: Yes.

Joyce: in the meantime, while we’re, while we’re trying to get through to the decision makers, we have to try to limit the harm, and that means reducing or keeping down the number of people who transition, and that’s for two reasons. One of them if that every one of those people is a person who’s been damaged. But the second one is every one of those people is, basically, you know, a huge problem to a sane world; like, if you’ve got people that — whether they’re transitioned; whether they’re happily transitioned; whether they’re unhappily transitioned; whether they’re de-transitioned — if you’ve got people who’ve dissociated from their sex in some way, every one of those people is someone who needs special accommodation in a sane world where we re-acknowledge the, the truth of sex. And, I mean, the people who’ve been damaged by it, the children who’ve been put through this, those people deserve every accommodation we can possibly make, but every one of them is a difficulty,

Staniland: Yes.

Joyce: you know.

Staniland: Yes.

Joyce: and, I mean, I know that sounds heartless: I’m trying to say exactly the opposite of sounding heartless. I’m saying everyone of those people for 50, 60, 70 years is going to need things that the rest of us just don’t need because the rest of us are just our sex. So the, the fewer of those people there are, the better in the sane world that I hope we will reach.

Can you explain why you, personally, want more children to be medicalised and becoming a lifetime patient requiring drugs and surgeries?

MarieDeGournay · 27/03/2024 13:44

I'm adding 'gender addled grievance gerbils' and 'a 2:2 in Grievance Studies' to my store of verbal eye-rolls😁

RoyalCorgi · 27/03/2024 14:23

Can you explain why you, personally, want more children to be medicalised and becoming a lifetime patient requiring drugs and surgeries?

Good question, but not one I expect DadJoke to answer.

If I said, "The world would be better if fewer people were mentally ill," that doesn't mean I'm advocating euthanasia for people with mental illness. It just means that I think it's better if people are healthy and happy rather than ill and miserable.

People with gender dysphoria would probably be happier if they could be helped to come to terms with their natal sex than spending their lives taking life-shortening drugs and undergoing risky surgical procedures.

Mollyollydolly · 27/03/2024 14:25

She's wonderful. I'm practically a stalker, I can listen to her all day everyday. And she's generous in her support of others too. I think the work SexMatters are doing is incredibly valuable. They're talking to all the right people and highlighting so many points of attack in a battle that must seem overwhelming at times. Long may she reign.

DadJoke · 27/03/2024 14:31

@RoyalCorgi

We aren't talking about people with a mental illness.

If she had said "the world would be better if fewer people were gay" or "every gay person (happy or not) is a problem in a sane world", would you understand why that would be homophobic?

"People who transition" are transgender people.

OldCrone · 27/03/2024 14:34

DadJoke · 27/03/2024 14:31

@RoyalCorgi

We aren't talking about people with a mental illness.

If she had said "the world would be better if fewer people were gay" or "every gay person (happy or not) is a problem in a sane world", would you understand why that would be homophobic?

"People who transition" are transgender people.

And transgender people are people who want to be the opposite sex because...?

OldCrone · 27/03/2024 14:38

DadJoke · 27/03/2024 14:31

@RoyalCorgi

We aren't talking about people with a mental illness.

If she had said "the world would be better if fewer people were gay" or "every gay person (happy or not) is a problem in a sane world", would you understand why that would be homophobic?

"People who transition" are transgender people.

If transgender people aren't ill, why do they need special medical treatment?

334bu · 27/03/2024 14:45

Not aware of any homosexual person requiring medical intervention to be homosexual. Also not aware of any homosexual demanding that others describe them as something they are not.

NecessaryScene · 27/03/2024 14:45

If she had said "the world would be better if fewer people were gay" or "every gay person (happy or not) is a problem in a sane world", would you understand why that would be homophobic?

Gay people are not a problem because they don't have detached-from-reality demands or beliefs, and do not unnecessarily demand harmful medical treatment.

If being transgender did not involve any denial of sex, or insistence on being treated as the opposite sex, or demands for unnecessary "medical" treatment, transgender people wouldn't be a problem either...

The problem isn't the label, it's the demands on society. If gay people, or any group, were demanding the same thing as "transgender" people, they would be the same problem.

JoodyBlue · 27/03/2024 15:02

DadJoke · 27/03/2024 14:31

@RoyalCorgi

We aren't talking about people with a mental illness.

If she had said "the world would be better if fewer people were gay" or "every gay person (happy or not) is a problem in a sane world", would you understand why that would be homophobic?

"People who transition" are transgender people.

She didn't say that though. Did she? This is whataboutery.....

RebelliousCow · 27/03/2024 15:16

DadJoke · 27/03/2024 14:31

@RoyalCorgi

We aren't talking about people with a mental illness.

If she had said "the world would be better if fewer people were gay" or "every gay person (happy or not) is a problem in a sane world", would you understand why that would be homophobic?

"People who transition" are transgender people.

The concept of transgender arises from Post Modernistic Queer Theory. It is a framing device: one used to describe people who, for whatever reason, feel the urge or desire to present as the opposite sex to that which they are.

A gay man or a lesbian are the descriptors given to people who are romantically an/or sexually attracted to members of their own sex.

Floisme · 27/03/2024 15:28

I don't think I've ever seen an opponent discuss or debate with Helen Joyce without resorting to personal attacks and smears. Even trained barristers, who practise a profession based on rational argument - or so I'd always thought - can't seem to manage it.

mumda · 27/03/2024 15:35

Buy her book and buy one for a friend.

Should we nominate her for an honour?

LifeInAHamsterWheel · 27/03/2024 16:20

mumda · 27/03/2024 15:35

Buy her book and buy one for a friend.

Should we nominate her for an honour?

Do - it's on offer on Amazon at the moment!

I love Helen and as a fellow Irishwoman I'm also proud of her!

Kucinghitam · 27/03/2024 16:33

I simply adore Ejaculating-Inseminator-Humourist's contributions on the Right Side of History. #OperationLetThemSpeak perfection, every time!

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 27/03/2024 16:33

I presume that @DadJoke would interpret 'We need to reduce the number of people with anorexia' in a similar way, rather than the more obvious meaning- i.e. that it would be great if fewer people felt the need to starve themselves.

UtopiaPlanitia · 27/03/2024 16:34

LifeInAHamsterWheel · 27/03/2024 16:20

Do - it's on offer on Amazon at the moment!

I love Helen and as a fellow Irishwoman I'm also proud of her!

Show quote history

Agus mise freisin 👍☘️

morningtoncrescent62 · 27/03/2024 16:41

Mollyollydolly · 27/03/2024 14:25

She's wonderful. I'm practically a stalker, I can listen to her all day everyday. And she's generous in her support of others too. I think the work SexMatters are doing is incredibly valuable. They're talking to all the right people and highlighting so many points of attack in a battle that must seem overwhelming at times. Long may she reign.

I could have written that. She's so clear, compassionate and well-informed, I could listen to her interviews forever. I do wish I had her knack for explaining things clearly and carefully without getting sidetracked or losing her cool. I just wish some of the mainstream channels would platform her (hello BBC, Woman's Hour especially).

NecessaryScene · 27/03/2024 16:46

I presume that @DadJokewould interpret 'We need to reduce the number of people with anorexia' in a similar way, rather than the more obvious meaning- i.e. that it would be great if fewer people felt the need to starve themselves.

I do still feel a bit guilty that we reduced the number of lobotomised people, don't you?

DadJoke · 27/03/2024 16:47

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 27/03/2024 16:33

I presume that @DadJoke would interpret 'We need to reduce the number of people with anorexia' in a similar way, rather than the more obvious meaning- i.e. that it would be great if fewer people felt the need to starve themselves.

Being transgender isn't a disease or a mental illness any more than being gay is.

We know the kind of people who describe people that way.

NecessaryScene · 27/03/2024 16:52

Being transgender isn't a disease or a mental illness any more than being gay is.

Okay, fine. We're making progress.

Now you need to tell to all the people demanding "life-saving" hormone treatment. Tell them they don't need the treatment. They won't like it.

LifeInAHamsterWheel · 27/03/2024 16:53

DadJoke · 27/03/2024 16:47

Being transgender isn't a disease or a mental illness any more than being gay is.

We know the kind of people who describe people that way.

Show quote history

But it is! It's a dysmorphia? It is absolutely a mental health condition.

As an aside, it drives me mad when people try to link trans with homosexuality. Two completely different things. And one of Helen Joyce's children is gay, she is clearly loving and accepting of him so not homophobic in the slightest.