Helen Joyce | Mumsnet

jeaux90 · 27/03/2024 06:34

She is marvellous. Absolutely joyful listening to her speak.

Mermoose · 27/03/2024 07:15

The clarity of her thinking and expression, her rationality and her non-tribalism are so refreshing

This. She's genuinely open-minded, generous and curious.

Whenever there's talk of a debate, it's Helen Joyce I'd choose to represent the gender critical position.

Floisme · 27/03/2024 08:54

Whenever I go on a Twitter surf, I always start and end it with Helen Joyce. I've not watched any of her podcasts so thanks for the recommendation. I make a point of watching Free Speech Nation when she's billed to be on. I find some commentators are good at writing but not so good at speaking (or vice versa) but she can do both.

I admire that she steers clear of party tribalism and the way she says what she thinks and yet doesn't get involved in (for want of a better expression) insider arguments.

I also agree she's far more direct than she used to be.

Beowulfa · 27/03/2024 08:57

I assume it's because of her background in mathematics that she's so refreshingly free of academic waffle. I think a major factor in the poor quality of our MPs (across all parties) is so few having a STEM degree.

Abhannmor · 27/03/2024 09:05

I love her voice and her Dublin/ Edinburgh hybrid accent. She used to edit the Economist I think? Therefore she is probably a Tory. But I choose to believe she is not a fan of Trussonomics. Certainly a brilliant debater and explainer.

redalex261 · 27/03/2024 09:17

I too love Helen Joyce - peaked because of her, not a clue until then, busy being kind and not thinking. Those who haven’t seen or listened to podcasts are in for a treat, she challenges every host but very gracefully. She is never aggressive or adversarial but persuades or challenges them with logic.

Agree she is one if the few who can both write and speak with clarity and confidence. A big loss the the Economist but a win for Sex Matters.

remotelostagain · 27/03/2024 09:21

I bloody love Helen too. Rational, reasonable and articulate. Helen, you are amazing.

ispavedwithgoodintentions · 27/03/2024 09:23

I agree! I'm a big fangirl 😆I wish I could be as articulate as her when she speaks and think her book is the best when it comes to explaining this nonsense. Amazing woman.

ispavedwithgoodintentions · 27/03/2024 09:24

When she's in a debate, you just know the other side are in for it 😍

ShoveandHoney · 27/03/2024 09:25

Somedays, I like a main of Helen Joyce with a side of KJK. On others, vice versa. When I’m entertaining, Mr Menno is an absolute staple 😊

cordeliachaseatemyhandbag · 27/03/2024 10:18

Fab woman

Emotionalsupportviper · 27/03/2024 10:43

darada · 27/03/2024 06:33

I just wanted to say how much I love Helen Joyce. For me she's the best thing about this whole sordid trans business.

I'd recommend you watch a few of her podcasts on YouTube. The clarity of her thinking and expression, her rationality and her non-tribalism are so refreshing. I also love the fact that with time she's run out of fucks to give and just calls out BS much more directly than her earlier comments.

Helen if you lurk here keep up the good work, I have learned a lot from you and we're all lucky to have you on our side in this increasingly important and urgent fight for sanity and our kids' future.

Agree - I follow her so closely I am practically a stalker.

Thingybob · 27/03/2024 10:59

Agree, Helen is one of my GC crushes.

I love her logic, her clarity and the fact that she's not frightened to disagree with the position of the Radical Feminists.

Does anyone know if there is a name for feminists who believe there are (average) biological differences in the psychological make up of males and females and that needs to be recognised in order to have equality between the sexes?

DadJoke · 27/03/2024 11:07

I do hope all the Harry Potter slash fic doesn't turn her trans.

She is a reasonable-sounding voice who has called for a reduction in the number of transgender people, happy or not. It's monstrous. Here is the transcript, in full context.

Helen Joyce: I think that for quite a while now this has not been about consciousness raising. That’s been irrelevant. That was important two or three years ago when there weren’t enough people; but there’ve been enough people to be critical mass, to be funding the, you know, the crowdfunders, to be writing letters to MPs — all that sort of thing — to have a movement, to have support for women — and men, of course: I mean, there’s people like Graham, of course, as well, who’ve got their necks stuck out on this. We can’t win this by saying, you know, there’s 60 X million people in this country and we’ve got to persuade all of them or a great majority of them; we’ve got to get through to the decision makes and

Helen Staniland: Yes.

Joyce: in the meantime, while we’re, while we’re trying to get through to the decision makers, we have to try to limit the harm, and that means reducing or keeping down the number of people who transition, and that’s for two reasons. One of them if that every one of those people is a person who’s been damaged. But the second one is every one of those people is, basically, you know, a huge problem to a sane world; like, if you’ve got people that — whether they’re transitioned; whether they’re happily transitioned; whether they’re unhappily transitioned; whether they’re de-transitioned — if you’ve got people who’ve dissociated from their sex in some way, every one of those people is someone who needs special accommodation in a sane world where we re-acknowledge the, the truth of sex. And, I mean, the people who’ve been damaged by it, the children who’ve been put through this, those people deserve every accommodation we can possibly make, but every one of them is a difficulty,

Staniland: Yes.

Joyce: you know.

Staniland: Yes.

Joyce: and, I mean, I know that sounds heartless: I’m trying to say exactly the opposite of sounding heartless. I’m saying everyone of those people for 50, 60, 70 years is going to need things that the rest of us just don’t need because the rest of us are just our sex. So the, the fewer of those people there are, the better in the sane world that I hope we will reach.

Eyesofdisarray · 27/03/2024 11:09

ShoveandHoney · 27/03/2024 09:25

Somedays, I like a main of Helen Joyce with a side of KJK. On others, vice versa. When I’m entertaining, Mr Menno is an absolute staple 😊

👆🏼 love this

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 27/03/2024 11:09

What's the problem with what's she's said there? I agree with every single word of it.

lonelywater · 27/03/2024 11:15

DadJoke · 27/03/2024 11:07

I do hope all the Harry Potter slash fic doesn't turn her trans.

She is a reasonable-sounding voice who has called for a reduction in the number of transgender people, happy or not. It's monstrous. Here is the transcript, in full context.

Helen Joyce: I think that for quite a while now this has not been about consciousness raising. That’s been irrelevant. That was important two or three years ago when there weren’t enough people; but there’ve been enough people to be critical mass, to be funding the, you know, the crowdfunders, to be writing letters to MPs — all that sort of thing — to have a movement, to have support for women — and men, of course: I mean, there’s people like Graham, of course, as well, who’ve got their necks stuck out on this. We can’t win this by saying, you know, there’s 60 X million people in this country and we’ve got to persuade all of them or a great majority of them; we’ve got to get through to the decision makes and

Helen Staniland: Yes.

Joyce: in the meantime, while we’re, while we’re trying to get through to the decision makers, we have to try to limit the harm, and that means reducing or keeping down the number of people who transition, and that’s for two reasons. One of them if that every one of those people is a person who’s been damaged. But the second one is every one of those people is, basically, you know, a huge problem to a sane world; like, if you’ve got people that — whether they’re transitioned; whether they’re happily transitioned; whether they’re unhappily transitioned; whether they’re de-transitioned — if you’ve got people who’ve dissociated from their sex in some way, every one of those people is someone who needs special accommodation in a sane world where we re-acknowledge the, the truth of sex. And, I mean, the people who’ve been damaged by it, the children who’ve been put through this, those people deserve every accommodation we can possibly make, but every one of them is a difficulty,

Staniland: Yes.

Joyce: you know.

Staniland: Yes.

Joyce: and, I mean, I know that sounds heartless: I’m trying to say exactly the opposite of sounding heartless. I’m saying everyone of those people for 50, 60, 70 years is going to need things that the rest of us just don’t need because the rest of us are just our sex. So the, the fewer of those people there are, the better in the sane world that I hope we will reach.

no, she has not called for a reduction in the number of trans people (code for trans genocide). Wanting their to be fewer for good reason is not the same as calling for gas chambers. I presume you know this but choose to spin it as "hate". A pathetically dismal effort.

Abhannmor · 27/03/2024 11:16

DadJoke · 27/03/2024 11:07

I do hope all the Harry Potter slash fic doesn't turn her trans.

She is a reasonable-sounding voice who has called for a reduction in the number of transgender people, happy or not. It's monstrous. Here is the transcript, in full context.

Helen Joyce: I think that for quite a while now this has not been about consciousness raising. That’s been irrelevant. That was important two or three years ago when there weren’t enough people; but there’ve been enough people to be critical mass, to be funding the, you know, the crowdfunders, to be writing letters to MPs — all that sort of thing — to have a movement, to have support for women — and men, of course: I mean, there’s people like Graham, of course, as well, who’ve got their necks stuck out on this. We can’t win this by saying, you know, there’s 60 X million people in this country and we’ve got to persuade all of them or a great majority of them; we’ve got to get through to the decision makes and

Helen Staniland: Yes.

Joyce: in the meantime, while we’re, while we’re trying to get through to the decision makers, we have to try to limit the harm, and that means reducing or keeping down the number of people who transition, and that’s for two reasons. One of them if that every one of those people is a person who’s been damaged. But the second one is every one of those people is, basically, you know, a huge problem to a sane world; like, if you’ve got people that — whether they’re transitioned; whether they’re happily transitioned; whether they’re unhappily transitioned; whether they’re de-transitioned — if you’ve got people who’ve dissociated from their sex in some way, every one of those people is someone who needs special accommodation in a sane world where we re-acknowledge the, the truth of sex. And, I mean, the people who’ve been damaged by it, the children who’ve been put through this, those people deserve every accommodation we can possibly make, but every one of them is a difficulty,

Staniland: Yes.

Joyce: you know.

Staniland: Yes.

Joyce: and, I mean, I know that sounds heartless: I’m trying to say exactly the opposite of sounding heartless. I’m saying everyone of those people for 50, 60, 70 years is going to need things that the rest of us just don’t need because the rest of us are just our sex. So the, the fewer of those people there are, the better in the sane world that I hope we will reach.

Of course we should try to limit the number of people - especially teenagers - who transition. How many mutilated life long patients do you want?

This blatant and futile attempt to twist her words into some kind of genocide would be farcical if it wasn't so disgusting.

Tallisker · 27/03/2024 11:17

She signed my copy of her book 🥰

Floisme · 27/03/2024 11:20

I must admit, if I were a gender ideologue whose only tools were emotional coercion and ad hominem attacks, I'd find Helen Joyce's cleverness and clear thinking very threatening, and I'd probably be very keen to see her taken down by whatever means possible.

I admire the way she deals with the nonsense.

KellieJaysLapdog · 27/03/2024 11:23

Not wanting teenagers to become needlessly enslaved to big pharma isn’t ‘trans genocide’.

I agree. Helen Joyce is very sensible (and I appreciate her quiet humour, which sometimes takes interviewers by surprise).

Looking forward to her eventual written analysis about the influence of online cultures such as Fanfic and Tumblr on today’s young people.

I’m hoping it will be Joyce’s book 2.

AnonyLonnymouse · 27/03/2024 11:29

The public sphere quite rightly tries to prevent people from doing harm to their bodies, either accidental or deliberate. This is not just because of the human impact on those individuals and their loved ones, but also because of the inevitable cost to the public purse.

That is all she is saying.

JoodyBlue · 27/03/2024 11:59

@AnonyLonnymouse succinctly and well put.

OldCrone · 27/03/2024 12:36

DadJoke · 27/03/2024 11:07

I do hope all the Harry Potter slash fic doesn't turn her trans.

She is a reasonable-sounding voice who has called for a reduction in the number of transgender people, happy or not. It's monstrous. Here is the transcript, in full context.

Helen Joyce: I think that for quite a while now this has not been about consciousness raising. That’s been irrelevant. That was important two or three years ago when there weren’t enough people; but there’ve been enough people to be critical mass, to be funding the, you know, the crowdfunders, to be writing letters to MPs — all that sort of thing — to have a movement, to have support for women — and men, of course: I mean, there’s people like Graham, of course, as well, who’ve got their necks stuck out on this. We can’t win this by saying, you know, there’s 60 X million people in this country and we’ve got to persuade all of them or a great majority of them; we’ve got to get through to the decision makes and

Helen Staniland: Yes.

Joyce: in the meantime, while we’re, while we’re trying to get through to the decision makers, we have to try to limit the harm, and that means reducing or keeping down the number of people who transition, and that’s for two reasons. One of them if that every one of those people is a person who’s been damaged. But the second one is every one of those people is, basically, you know, a huge problem to a sane world; like, if you’ve got people that — whether they’re transitioned; whether they’re happily transitioned; whether they’re unhappily transitioned; whether they’re de-transitioned — if you’ve got people who’ve dissociated from their sex in some way, every one of those people is someone who needs special accommodation in a sane world where we re-acknowledge the, the truth of sex. And, I mean, the people who’ve been damaged by it, the children who’ve been put through this, those people deserve every accommodation we can possibly make, but every one of them is a difficulty,

Staniland: Yes.

Joyce: you know.

Staniland: Yes.

Joyce: and, I mean, I know that sounds heartless: I’m trying to say exactly the opposite of sounding heartless. I’m saying everyone of those people for 50, 60, 70 years is going to need things that the rest of us just don’t need because the rest of us are just our sex. So the, the fewer of those people there are, the better in the sane world that I hope we will reach.

What do you view as positive about sterilising children?

LilyBartsHatShop · 27/03/2024 13:19

Thingybob · 27/03/2024 10:59

Agree, Helen is one of my GC crushes.

I love her logic, her clarity and the fact that she's not frightened to disagree with the position of the Radical Feminists.

Does anyone know if there is a name for feminists who believe there are (average) biological differences in the psychological make up of males and females and that needs to be recognised in order to have equality between the sexes?

"Sex realist feminism" is a term that's been adopted by a few feminist thinkers and writers.

https://fairerdisputations.org/

I associate it with Louise Perry and Mary Harrington but I just had a look at the website and it turns out Helen Joyce isminvolved, too.

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