KJK’s insane rant

[Dontblameitonsunshine]

Kjk’s decision to attack everyone who is not her lapdog is increasingly destructive. It looks like Can-sg put on a great conference. Those doctors who have spoken up have risked their careers. Kjk has become famous and has started a business from LWS. She has benefited way more than any of these doctors.

Her work could be powerful if she just stopped attacking everyone else. But these days she is a demagogue and causes more harm than good by capitalising on vulnerable and timid women and telling them that they need her to speak for them.

From that hope not hate blog post.

“She has increasingly found support from and an overlap in views with the far right, which has also increasingly focused on trans people in recent years. Keen-Minshull has posted anti-Muslim tweets and expressed support for Tommy Robinson. She has been praised by the far right for a number of years and collaborated with far-right social media influencers. She has appeared on the livestreams of conspiracy theorist Richie Allen’s channel twice and been interviewed by Laurence Fox, and also frequently appears on GB News.”

Can posters please start going further than plopping down links and actually do the fucking research for themselves on these accusations?

’An overlap with the far right’? Because she thinks sex is immutable, and that children should not receive medical treatment for an identity issue? Does that mean you are far right because you express the same beliefs? I am sure you can see how this works.

And apparently, according to Wikipedia, she ‘expressed support for Tommy Robinson’ on this feminist current episode. https://www.feministcurrent.com/2019/01/24/podcast-posie-parker-standing-for-women/

Maybe instead of relying on Wikipedia, where this Tommy Robinson bit was posted, people can actually listen to the podcast and see the context. I cannot find a transcript.

“She has been praised by the far right for a number of years and collaborated with far-right social media influencers.”

Which ones? Surely being praised by someone is not in the power of the people being praised? This is more guilt by association and as vague as hell. Or does the author then want to portray Richie Allen and Lawrence Fox as ‘far right’ with the follow on sentence?

“‘She has appeared on the livestreams of conspiracy theorist Richie Allen’s channel twice and been interviewed by Laurence Fox, and also frequently appears on GB News.’”

Because I think Richie Allen has a range of people on his show doesn’t he? This author has discredited him as a conspiracy theorist. Are conspiracy theorists now automatically far right too? And I don’t believe Fox is far right. right wing maybe but far right, I need to be convinced.

Some posters say that over analysing arguments is abusive, however, I cannot agree. I think if posters cannot do the work to even begin to fact check the evidence they present, it says a great deal about them.

Different posters have said numerous times on this thread that we have already done the research and posted it across numerous threads about these repeated accusations. It is actually not that hard to go and search even MN quickly to read the background. Yes. It takes time. But it isn’t hard.

KJKs husband has a very good job, and she is a SAHM mother of four in her late 40s, living in a paid-off house.

What. A. Cow. HOW DARE SHE

Its obvious that the problem with KJK is that she said she is going to run against Starmer. Of course no one believes that she will win, or even dent his majority. But she may force him to speak about women's rights. And there's a chance that he's going to come up with classic quotes along the lines of -
its wrong to to say only women have a cervix some women have a penis, and we are going to fast track the process of men getting a female birth certificate.

Best trash a women so she doesnt get to expose a mans intention, than question a mans attitude to safeguarding.

But im sure WPUK is busy working behind the scenes to mitigate for his TRA work.

By the way, I really do recommend that you actually do that fucking research into what you post. You might find that Hearts Of Oak platform people (and they nod along with those speakers) who think the Tories are shit! Gosh. Does that make YOU a supporter of the Hearts of Oak?

Random. Also makes no sense . I don't care who they do or don't "platform". I have no interest in engaging with far right groups at all because I think fascism is a huge threat to democracy at the moment and I don't want to encourage it by giving fascists clicks, regardless of who they "platform". So there's no logical way to describe me as a "supporter".

If freedom of speech is now the domain of the far right, that really does say something about the growing totalitarianism and authoritarianism of the left. Fallacious argument, you can tell because it starts with an "if". Freedom of speech is not the "domain of the far right", it's a fundamental right in this country (barring breaking the law with slander, libel or inciting racial hatred).

Journalists do the research. If "Hope not Hate" had posted factually incorrect information, KJK would have got it removed. We can all see she is happy to use legal action if she feels people are defaming her.

This "go and do your own research" is a diversion tactic, along the lines of Gove "had enough of experts". My research is inadequate compared to a journalist or professional researcher. I don't have the time, or access to sources that they have. I doubt many people do.

When the left run organisations refuse to speak to women who don't want kids sterilised, or men in women's spaces, so they create their own platform and speak to people who will listen, they then get castigated as being 'far-right' by the left, for daring to continue to speak when they thought they were the ones who decided who could speak.

I hope she has used some of the money that she got in claims against the personal smearing to pay off her mortgage. As that would be HER money to use as and when she sees fit.

The reason that I won't attack her, is not because I am a fan girl, or 'lapdog', but because I've watched her put herself into the firing line again, and again, and again.

I bought stickers and t-shirts. The money from the stickers I bought went to fund the original Adult Human Female poster that got taken down. I'm very happy with that.

I also was one of the original backers of The Radical Notion. I have removed by subscription for that after the One Issue debacle and I'll never support Jane Clare Jones again for that.

I was also a backer of various women over the years. I had my funds returned when they closed down one crowd funder and I've never been able to use that platform again. They BANNED everyone who funded a woman on their platform. So I decided never to use another crowd funder platform again. I either fund directly or not at all.

I know that the big lie was in Mein Kampf. What you seem to be saying, and I am sure you will clarify this just as you normally do, is that if someone recognises the pattern in propaganda they should never discuss it because people will find mentioning it anti-semitic?

It is a recognised pattern of how propaganda works. Does this mean that no one can also then describe how other patterns of propaganda work if they have been associated with vile atrocities? If we cannot evaluate that pattern and discuss it for fear of being labelled as 'anti', how the fuck will society learn from its mistakes. The woman who made the speech was in no way supporting Hitler, she was in no way supporting the far right. Naming a style of propaganda does not make you aligned with that propaganda.

What is informative from that speech (thanks again Lisa, and Helle) is the Affirmations and the psychology of language. As SKier would say "99.9% of women haven't got a penis".
Well that's a step forward from "TW (Men) are Women". Or is it?

This statement logically follows from SKier's quote above "some women do have a penis" and what your brain actually processes is "women can have a penis"

He's not helping clarify matters, as much as he might imagine he is.

WPUK's behind the scenes extensive work must indeed be secret since few of us have heard of it. And all these comments about KJK's business and selling merchandise? Direct them at JCJ who charges hundreds for unaccredited courses and whose company flies below HMRC's radar. She also pays Radical Notion staff £120 an issue (or did until recently). That's downright exploitative given the work that goes into producing a magazine. I know who the abusive narcissist is in this discussion, both from personal experience and what I've observed since, and it's not the woman trying to give ordinary women a voice.

Are you sure about this? The concept of the “Big Lie” has been employed by the media on multiple occasions to attack Trump. Are you saying these references are anti-Semitic as well. The Big Lie is a very commonly used concept. I’ve even seen it used in reference to the NHS dental contracts. I’ve never seen anyone call out it’s use as anti-Semitic before.

Who are the journalists you are referring to? I think that it has been shown very recently that no, journalists aren't doing their research anymore. Did you read the statement by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation? Sarah Ferguson's team is supposed to be one of the best investigative teams in Australia and the ABC had to publicly state that they don't support her team in this instance. Because they and others rely on wikipedia. And it is a cycle.

How would Kellie Jay Keen have got it removed from Hope not Hate? Did you know how often she and others have attempted to change wikipedia? And yet, wikipedia still allows their team to post spurious claims. Why do you think Hope not Hate would make changes?

Can you at the very least list the 'journalists' that are part of the team of hope not hate? Because you have put faith in a blog post on a website and you have not done any of your own research.

This "go and do your own research" is me telling you that if you want to have any credibility in your claims, that you really should 'go and do your own research'. Because you have not posted original source material that substantiates your claims and you have posted misrepresentations and falsehoods.

Did you mean me Bez?

That was the whole point of my post!
To highlight the madness and let people see the original etc.

It's sounding like this was taken the completely opposite way than intended by you and Helleofabore?

Perhaps not worded clearly? It was 3am.

If it has, I guess no matter as it has been highlighted now anyway.

Although still very disconcerting to be misunderstood so drastically though!

I rarely post in reaction to something- but I did with that link as I remember how much that particular accusations/framing had shocked and bothered me at the time. (and 3am is not a good time to engage maybe)

I don't usually get involved in these kind of exchanges- as it can be a bit fraught-and I'm obviously not great at it so I'll step back on this.

Glad the fuller picture is out there though.

@AdamRyan it seems like Hope not hate are smearing KJK in a deliberately non actionable way. They (and others such as yourself) can write long lists of tenuous associations with the far right, where the intention is to link KJK to far right beliefs, without actually saying anything libellous.

Did you know your favourite politician Keir Starmer goes to a special location each week and talks about politics with people including hundreds of right wing politicians? Did you know his round earthist views were shared by Hitler? All pretty suspicious huh?

Thanks for confirming though that you rely on the interpretation of others to form your views and that you don't go that one step further and search out original source material to analyse and evaluate.

Good to know.

I don't think you were misunderstood at all. I am sure that Bez will clarify but I don't believe that you were the one referred to. I happened to have transcripted the speech myself in the past so I posted it so it was right there for others, no other reason. I remember typing it up and then finding out about genderwang's efforts after.

I was referring to the poster who posted that hopenothate blog post as if it was a carefully investigated journalistically sound piece when I said that people are posting smear articles. You did the opposite and posted a great clarifying post and I came in after agreeing with you. I apologise for the confusion though.

Ah thanks for putting my mind at rest Helle.

That was a strange morning coffee experience for me!

I see that you don't see the logic here.

I am using the logic that you are posting on this thread about 'guilt by association' and tenuous links back at you. As in, you have posted a blog that makes a point about KJK supposedly sharing 'views' with far right people and I was pointing out that you share a view with someone who has appeared on a podcast with Hearts of Oak. Thereby using that same logic, you are far right.

Either way, the pertinent points about Hearts of Oak are:

Can you provide evidence that Hearts of Oak are far right?
Do you have evidence that Hearts of Oak were invited to the Brighton event by Kellie Jay Keen?

But you have already now stated that we should never expect you to do your own research because you have absolute trust in journalists to do theirs so that you don't have to.

I am quite astounded actually that a poster has taken a quip about being mortgage free as being a statement to be taken seriously.

And that people being mortgage free are somehow an issue? WTAF.

And that someone thinks that KJK is making money from youtube when she has been very forthcoming that she has been demonetised. And besides which, why should that matter? This is the way of the world now that viewing content will generate income once a threshold is reached.

Does this mean that we should now not view content to evaluate it for ourselves in case it contributes financially to someone who don't want to support? Because the more that people try to dismiss KJK, the more inconsistent and unreasonable they come across.

Hi @DameMaud , I'm sorry I should have been clearer! I should have thanked you as well as @Helleofabore

I'm not sure who posted the original smear job from HopeNotHate, no matter. It gave us all a chance to see what was actually said, versus what was reported

A chance to know better, and do better, in the future, yes

No worries @BezMills
Thanks for clarifying!
Can enjoy my second cuppa now😊

💐

Have you ever read some of her old MN posts? I have. Her husband was earning £200k back in 2008. That’s going to pay a mortgage off a lot quicker than selling merch.

Oh dear god. This is pathetic.

People absolutely fuming that she's paid off her mortgage, and telling other people my God, have you not yet heard?

Her house, nails, hair and car have always been a source of resentment amongst people who vilify her.

In this article (link below) Hope Not Hate’s take on the pushback against gender ideology appears to be that it is an entirely far right phenomenon. They conflate far right views with concerns that feminists have about sharing spaces with men. And they neglect to mention that the biggest pushback in the UK is not by the far right but by feminists who want to protect women’s rights to single sex spaces / sports and services. They also insinuate that the LGBA conference attendees were rubbing shoulders with the far right. I really don’t think this is an organisation that should have any influence at all over which media we chose to follow. They clearly have an agenda which is to lump all pushback against transgenderism into being a far right concern.

https://hopenothate.org.uk/2022/03/16/transphobia-and-the-far-right/