They / them at work

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I've just written a long post and it's disappeared so in brief - how do you deal with staff who are they/them at work? I will really struggle to call a very obvious biological male 'they'. I also can't loose my job and do want to be respectful but also can't change my view on this nonsense !

So if they insisted they were 6ft 6 when they were 5ft and got offended when you looked them in the eye not over their head would you say ' they respect your height, why can't you respect theirs'

If they were white, but insisted they were black would you say 'they respect your race why can't you respect theirs'

It's fictitious nonsense before getting into the deeper issues of this person wanting to join the office woman's netball team/black support group etc. rohyonol indeed.

So if someone chooses to call you by the wrong pronoun, that is ok? Because you can’t force them to share your view that you are (presumably) a woman?

I also think you perhaps got confused there and said ‘no-one’ when you meant ‘I’.

A good manager would put their personal views aside, try to make any new team member feel welcome and do what they could for the harmony of the team. I'd try not to pre-judge and treat it much like welcoming a team member who's got strong religious beliefs (yes I personally think they are deluded but I would never dream of voicing that opinion in work) and I would accept I have to make allowances for their religious dress/ practices and recognise it is important to them. I might inwardly be rolling my eyes but I'd make sure my team didn't pick up on my bias or frustrations and stayed focused on work.

Pronouns, you can usually avoid if it really irks you or if you're happy to try, like with someone with a name I find really hard to remember or pronounce... I might stumble or get it wrong a few times but I'd at least try to get it right. Humans can learn whole new languages, trying one little change isn't that hard. I think of it as a bit of a 'brain training' game, it's good to be adaptable.

I work with 3 they/thems, two are obviously m/f but one really does look somewhere in between and they/ them actually feels 'right' because of how I read them.

Just address them by their name. Don’t use pronouns. This is going to get completely out of hand. How is everyone supposed to know everyone’s preferred pronouns? It will get to the stage where people are forever having to look for an email from someone to check the part that lists their preferred pronouns. It bizarre when you think of the tiny minority of people that actually use alternative pronouns. What a time to be alive 🙄

99% of people agree with the previous poster. We just have to pretend otherwise in work. Hardly anyone actually thinks anyone is a ‘them’.

How can this be avoided at work?

My dd nearly 14 has been spoken to at school a few times for saying he to a trans person. She's known the kid since reception age. She's definitely not doing it purpose.

It is incredibly difficult consistently to refer to an individual as a plural - much harder than using opposite sex pronouns for someone who IDs as trans. It also makes no fucking sense, bc all NB people refer to themselves in the singular ("I", "me").

Everyone else will make mistakes all the time too, OP. Just apologise and correct yourself when you do. No one can sack you for accidentally getting this wrong.

And, yes, it is ridiculous and I'm sorry you're being forced into this, but it isn't worth losing your job.

My child's school has trans and GN teachers.

I use their biological pronouns/titles. I won't lie.

Excellent, we need more of this, especially with teachers.

There’s a word for people who try to control others and are aggressive when their attempts at control don’t work.

avoid pronouns, use their name & document everything in case they/thems super specialness in being not like the other humans manifests itself by them being a colossal PITA

It's interesting how this impacts on our ability to communicate naturally with each other. Being compelled to use language that is counter to the reality of what we see in front of us makes people hesitant. Communication includes verbal and non verbal cues. Instead of discussion flowing naturally, enforcing counter intuitive language on others results in hesitancy, self imposed censorship and "false" interactions.
It's such an own goal for the self obsessed indulging in this. Not only do people instinctively withdraw from them, they'll always be aware of people openly self censoring - subtle body language changes displaying hesitancy, discussions will feel false.

Very sad.

I work with a surprising amount of female people called Alex/Sam and similar. I'm used to using they until I know if they are she or he so I think this would be a similar approach just in person. Use their name if it's too hard.

As a manager and in a professional environment you have to respect the staff member's wishes.

Use name as much as possible rather than pronouns to make it easier for yourself.

You know what will happen if you use another pronoun with this person: complaint to HR who will back up the employee.

This is ridiculous. You know they’re female.

Id be quite offended by this if I was called Alex or Sam.

Agree. Some people will enjoy the power that this gives them, knowing others are scared of getting this wrong. But the majority are probably confused young people who will be disadvantaged, as you say.

The only good thing about NB is that it is easy to drop when you wake up to the idiocy of it all. I think the trend is already slowing, in terms of celebs "coming out" as NB, because it no longer has much novelty factor, and, once you have garnered a bit of attention from announcing it, it's a bit, "So what?".

Your mum is probably a terf.

TERF - tired of explaining reality to fuckwits 😁

Aah yes, those old fashions eh?

The whole idea of choosing your own pronouns doesn’t make sense. It’s like you can’t choose your own nickname. Or, I guess you can, but everyone will think you’re a wee bit of a dick.
It’s just not how language works. In English, pronouns are based on sex or perceived sex. I have no truck with this pronoun narcissism and just pointedly used our NB intern’s (female) name every time being prepared to defend myself if I “accidentally” used she. In my job I get “misgendered” all the time and I don’t care because I have a personality instead of just a “gender identity”

I'd just ignore it and say its against my beliefs to say that gender can be fluid or changed. But honestly I just can't be bothered to restructure the English language just to pander to this bollocks.

Exactly, the person talking about you thinks about you and what biological category you fit in then chooses the appropriate pronouns.

Makes zero sense to me.

You can't choose your own adjectives.

I'm 5.5 and overweight but my adjectives are 'tall and thin' and anyone who looks at my physical appearance and deny I am 'tall and thin' is hateful and bigoted because inside I FEEL tall and slim.

I think 'they/them' is becoming more common, and that's fine. As a PP has pointed out, we have used them for singular people in English for centuries. Maybe s/he will eventually become obsolete, in the same way as 'thou/thee' has done .

However, there is a big difference between a gradually evolving language trend and compelled speech, which is what neopronouns are.

There's a real issue with compelling children in schools to use pronouns that don't match reality and also completely wreck accepted grammatical conventions. Especially when the adults indulge in issuing sanctions for this.

Again it speaks to an unhealthy, self interested dynamic in the adults who are meant to be outward focussing, centring the learning needs of children. None of this addresses the needs of children with SEN, English as an additional language, young children and so on.

I have no idea how this can be resolved but suspect that most adults, other than the best / most skilled professionals indulging in this, will find in the long run, their employment opportunities become more limited. Especially in schools.
Teaching children and managing schools are challenging. Adding adults into the mix who need additional behavioural strategies to manage counter intuitive language, have sometimes randomly selected pronouns and add in "How dare you call me Sir, I'm a Miss" into classroom dynamics may find themselves being avoided.