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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

No more puberty blockers for children from the NHS - reported in the Times!

976 replies

MrsOvertonsWindow · 12/03/2024 16:21

This is massive - and long overdue

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/97ce2e81-2884-42f5-bb82-2a2778f2cc91?shareToken=9568e79f0683beea68ffe5e978b05a29

OP posts:
Thread gallery
99
pronounsbundlebundle · 15/03/2024 10:51

Yes, the Bayswater quote needs to be repeated widely. I like that the Times article gives them the last word.

Schools, DfE, the NHS do need to say sorry and that they made a mistake.

"“We have watched our children wait for these interventions because they have been told to believe that’s when their lives will begin. All we can do is wait for them to grow up and hopefully realise what has happened, but it would be much better if the schools, NHS and the government could acknowledge they made a mistake."

duc748 · 15/03/2024 11:26

It is evil, and hence it can't be met half-way, which too many have tried to do (with varying amounts of good faith) for too long.

KohlaParasaurus · 15/03/2024 12:59

That's a majestically furious piece of writing. If you'd told me 5 years ago that I'd be contemplating subscribing to The Telegraph I'd have laughed, but I'm grateful to every publication that has been prepared to give column space to writers digging their heels in against the advance of gender ideology.

I also feel for previous posters with children and adolescents who have become entangled in this pernicious belief system. If it had happened ten years earlier, it could have been my children. If it had happened 40 years earlier, it could have been me.

DuesToTheDirt · 15/03/2024 13:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

mcduffy · 15/03/2024 13:58

I subscribe to the telegraph now despite being a devout times reader; there is at least one decent article a day on the subject it seems

DuesToTheDirt · 15/03/2024 14:43

Ooh, a deletion. I must have said something right!

Emotionalsupportviper · 15/03/2024 15:43

DuesToTheDirt · 15/03/2024 14:43

Ooh, a deletion. I must have said something right!

Well done!

You must be so proud.

Flowers

Couldn't find a medal among all the little thingies, so have a 🐶instead. (You do like puppies, I hope? If not, I'll have it. I would like all the dogs in the world.)

domineastronomy · 15/03/2024 18:12

DuesToTheDirt · 15/03/2024 14:43

Ooh, a deletion. I must have said something right!

Congratulations!

DrBlackbird · 15/03/2024 23:16

Well no great surprise from the Graun… trotting out the familiar innocuous phrases…‘apply the brakes’, ‘resuming puberty as normal’ making it sound as if there’s no hard evidence one way or another and quoting a doctor about how life saving they are. Not surprising but disappointing from a ‘science’ editor.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/mar/15/puberty-blockers-what-are-they-and-what-are-the-concerns-about-them

Puberty blockers: what are they and what are the concerns about them?

As NHS England prepares to end routine provision for children with gender dysphoria, here’s all you need to know about them

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/mar/15/puberty-blockers-what-are-they-and-what-are-the-concerns-about-them

Delphinium20 · 15/03/2024 23:30

If puberty blockers didn't exist, huge parts of this trauma wouldn't exist either.

Lupron is designed for men charged with sex crimes to be chemically castrated. This entire movement starts at the feet of the most perverted men.

(Yes, yes, I know it can also be used for egg stimulation in IVF and precocious puberty...but women wanting a baby didn't start this mess)

SnakesAndArrows · 16/03/2024 07:37

Delphinium20 · 15/03/2024 23:30

If puberty blockers didn't exist, huge parts of this trauma wouldn't exist either.

Lupron is designed for men charged with sex crimes to be chemically castrated. This entire movement starts at the feet of the most perverted men.

(Yes, yes, I know it can also be used for egg stimulation in IVF and precocious puberty...but women wanting a baby didn't start this mess)

Leuprorelin was “designed” (i.e. licensed and marketed) for treating men with prostate cancer. Licensing for halting precocious puberty came along at some point after that.

Its use for chemical castration of sex offenders specifically (as opposed to treatment for cancer by way of chemical castration - hormone suppression - which is how it works) is off-label.

It’s bizarre that anyone would use or consent to the use of these (necessarily) harmful medicines, and on children, without there being any clear and urgent clinical need. The more I think about it the angrier I get.

Kucinghitam · 16/03/2024 07:40

DrBlackbird · 15/03/2024 23:16

Well no great surprise from the Graun… trotting out the familiar innocuous phrases…‘apply the brakes’, ‘resuming puberty as normal’ making it sound as if there’s no hard evidence one way or another and quoting a doctor about how life saving they are. Not surprising but disappointing from a ‘science’ editor.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/mar/15/puberty-blockers-what-are-they-and-what-are-the-concerns-about-them

On this topic, the Guardian and their readership are trapped in a co-dependent dysfunctional relationship of pious fraud, wilful blindness and narcissistic virtue signalling.

EasternStandard · 16/03/2024 07:42

Kucinghitam · 16/03/2024 07:40

On this topic, the Guardian and their readership are trapped in a co-dependent dysfunctional relationship of pious fraud, wilful blindness and narcissistic virtue signalling.

What a great way to put it

Yes they are

RoyalCorgi · 16/03/2024 07:52

Well no great surprise from the Graun… trotting out the familiar innocuous phrases…‘apply the brakes’, ‘resuming puberty as normal’ making it sound as if there’s no hard evidence one way or another and quoting a doctor about how life saving they are. Not surprising but disappointing from a ‘science’ editor.

I was about to start a thread on this article when I saw you'd posted it here. It really is a despicable article. It pretends to be even-handed while quite firmly coming down in favour of puberty blockers while claiming there isn't much evidence either way. A small mention of the drop in IQ caused by puberty blockers, quickly dismissed. No mention of the class action in the states by women who were given Lupron for precocious puberty and ended up with bone damage. No mention that 98% of children who take puberty blockers go on to cross-sex hormones (while of the children who don't take them, 80% will desist). No mention that those children who have never been through puberty will never have orgasm or anything approaching a normal sex life.

It is completely irresponsible of the science editor, a journalist who has been writing about science for many years and, one assumes, understands how to evaluate evidence, to write a piece that is pure propaganda for a harmful medication. In years to come, this piece will be held up as an example of how some journalists in the liberal press failed to do their job properly, preferring to support uncritically the worst excesses of the pharma industry.

I do wonder when, if ever, the Guardian will grasp that it's been backing the wrong horse. Will it ever reflect on the harm that it's done?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 16/03/2024 08:10

I do wonder when, if ever, the Guardian will grasp that it's been backing the wrong horse. Will it ever reflect on the harm that it's done?

sadly I don’t think it will. They’re going down with the ship. I’ve no doubt there will now be a flurry of soft fluffy articles by their favourite trans writers about how sad they are about everything

MrsOvertonsWindow · 16/03/2024 08:20

This is where that Guardian article should have ended:
“No area of medicine can operate ethically in such a vacuum of knowledge,” says Sallie Baxendale, a professor of clinical neuropsychology at University College London. She also has “grave concerns” about adolescents’ capacity to give truly informed consent to medications that “interrupt the construction of the neural architecture that underpins complex decision making”

Quoting the beliefs of an American endocrinologist making her income from giving kids pbs really isn't the "balance " he thinks it is.

OP posts:
Kucinghitam · 16/03/2024 08:26

Theeyeballsinthesky · 16/03/2024 08:10

I do wonder when, if ever, the Guardian will grasp that it's been backing the wrong horse. Will it ever reflect on the harm that it's done?

sadly I don’t think it will. They’re going down with the ship. I’ve no doubt there will now be a flurry of soft fluffy articles by their favourite trans writers about how sad they are about everything

I partially concur. They (and their complicit readership) have nailed too much to this stake in their own identities as The Right Side of History. In their Bundle of Good Beliefs for Righteous People, they have made it one of the key supporting pillars. However, bearing in mind that pious fraud is one of their favourite MOs, there will also be plenty of slimy reverse-ferret-style rewriting of history.

Signalbox · 16/03/2024 09:10

Theeyeballsinthesky · 16/03/2024 08:36

Well strike me down with a feather - guardian out the blocks early

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/16/women-egg-freezing-doctors-transition-healthcare-trans-gender

heeeeeres Freddie with an article ostensibly on egg freezing but with a heavy sideline in doctors dont know everything. Apparently Freddie learnt from a YouTube vlog that testosterone probably doesn’t cause infertility

Edited

That’s interesting. Freddy has previously stated in a Prick News article that Freddy was wrongly told that transition would cause Freddy to be infertile. The Guardian article seems to be saying the opposite…

Archive link to PN

https://archive.ph/SSyYX

Helleofabore · 16/03/2024 09:10

Theeyeballsinthesky · 16/03/2024 08:36

Well strike me down with a feather - guardian out the blocks early

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/16/women-egg-freezing-doctors-transition-healthcare-trans-gender

heeeeeres Freddie with an article ostensibly on egg freezing but with a heavy sideline in doctors dont know everything. Apparently Freddie learnt from a YouTube vlog that testosterone probably doesn’t cause infertility

Edited

Is this the same Freddy who claimed they were not told they would not be able to breastfeed after their double mastectomy while they were supposedly an adult attending university at the time..... (and supposedly then never further researched a major surgery they were about to have?)

I am shocked.

NotBadConsidering · 16/03/2024 09:10

Freddy McConnell, the female who was shocked to find out that having breasts removed would have an impact on the ability to breastfeed a baby later in life? Thus demonstrating a significant lack of informed consent in the proceedings?

Similarly from this article:

In 2013, I attended my third or fourth gender identity clinic appointment in London, the gap between appointments being roughly six months and the initial wait over a year. The consultant was giving me a risk/benefit analysis of starting testosterone (T) injections. The question of fertility came up. Had I looked into fertility preservation in the form of egg freezing? Shit, I thought, was I meant to?
“No…?” I offered.

Again, as a fully grown adult, McConnell was demonstrating a lack of full thought about major life events that are impacted by medical treatments.

My actual feelings about parenthood at the time, which I didn’t trouble him with, were ambivalent. I used to think I’d definitely have kids. Maybe I still would. Adoption, fostering and surrogacy all seemed like valid, albeit purely theoretical, options.

Echos of the leaked discussions from the WPATH Files, where clinicians discuss how naive children are about fertility options.

Coincidentally, in 2016 I learned that testosterone probably hadn’t made me infertile after all. I discovered this by chance from a YouTube vlog. In the almost eight years since, I’ve carried and given birth to my two children via artificial insemination and donor sperm. I’ve also, perhaps unsurprisingly, become interested in the research around trans people’s fertility and our reproductive choices. Needless to say, there’s very little research of this kind, including zero empirical evidence that testosterone affects trans male fertility.

My bold. Yes Freddy, there’s very little research. Slow hand clap for you. So how can children consent, Freddy? How can anyone? “Hey kids, we don’t know what the impact will be on your fertility, but we are going to go ahead anyway and you can jump on YouTube and work it out later, ok?”

Freddy doesn’t understand the definition of the word “infertility”. It is not the inability to conceive at all, it’s the inability to conceive without the need for assisted technology after 12 months of unprotected sex. We don’t know if Freddy met the latter part of this definition, but Freddy required technology to conceive.

Freddy thinks that because Freddy was able to conceive, there are no issues with testosterone causing infertility. And there’s no doubt that women on testosterone can spontaneously get pregnant. But it is not known what the full impact is and it is known that females who have been on testosterone have had to turn to IVF in order to conceive. And it is not known what the impact of puberty blockers is but if a girl is blocked before her uterus and vagina has had a chance to mature, she will most definitely be infertile.

The entire article is Freddy outlining how so little is known about this area. The article is not the “win” Freddy thinks it is, but coming from someone who didn’t realise having breasts removed would impact their primary function, it doesn’t surprise me.

Signalbox · 16/03/2024 09:11

Methinks Freddy is a fantasist.

Helleofabore · 16/03/2024 09:21

'Coincidentally, in 2016 I learned that testosterone probably hadn’t made me infertile after all. I discovered this by chance from a YouTube vlog'

How flippant. Did any of the clinicians say 'testosterone will make you infertile'? or did they say 'it will increase the risk of testosterone'? Which is rather different. But the more I read of this person's work, the more I don't think they have a firm grasp on reality and that reality bends to suit whatever gets this person noticed.

Am I correct that Freddy is someone who has taken testosterone through out their pregnancies? Or did they stop?

Was Freddy involved in that paper released by Hines et al about how suggestions that these pregnant people should not take their testosterone was cruel and unethical. Because a child who was born with disabilities and complications due to that drug was not to be considered a negative outcome for that child?

Freddy again has proven that Freddy is only ever about Freddy.

ErrolTheDragon · 16/03/2024 09:22

And there’s no doubt that women on testosterone can spontaneously get pregnant. But it is not known what the full impact is and it is known that females who have been on testosterone have had to turn to IVF in order to conceive.

Is anything known about whether the foetus is affected?

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