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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowling has sadly opened her mouth again

1000 replies

DayAndAge · 27/02/2024 08:20

How the metro can put out this tweet which effectively suggests a woman shouldn't be allowed to speak is beyond me. Shocked but not surprised. Comments are heartening though, as is the ratio.

JK Rowling has sadly opened her mouth again
OP posts:
Thread gallery
112
FrancescaContini · 27/02/2024 22:08

WickedSerious · 27/02/2024 09:15

I didn't know it was a news source.

Nor did I.

Eyesofdisarray · 27/02/2024 22:10

A male prisoner may be vulnerable for many different reasons. Small, disabled, learning disability, mental health vulnerabilities. Should they be housed in the female estate too? Where would you stop?

NoBinturongsHereMate · 27/02/2024 22:15

Definitely not my area of expertise, @RedToothBrush but I believe prisoners can request - or object to - transfers between prisons on welfare grounds (for example, if distance from family would prevent visits, or if they can argue a need for particular facilities that aren't offered in all prisons).

Won't necessarily be granted, and would only be within security categories etc.

ArabellaScott · 27/02/2024 22:18

wordler · 27/02/2024 21:16

But why do extreme trans activists get to make the decision for all transprisoners present and future?

But I do accept PP point about other vulnerable male prisoners too. The prison system needs a lot of overhauling to deal with how we treat prisoners and try to balance punishment vs rehabilitation.

Are there any current trans men who have wanted to be placed in men's prisons?

There is or was one transman in a men's prison in Scotland.

Mintytea11 · 27/02/2024 22:18

Jk is absolutely right. The trans activists are condemning the crime but saying she is still a woman “India” willoughby says “she” should be placed in a woman’s jail too.

BreakfastAtMilliways · 27/02/2024 22:23

The AI machines people who turn out this polluted waste are not journalists, any more than the gossip hounds supplying the fodder for Closer or Heat back in the 00s. At best they’re youngsters stringing together barely intelligible sentences for pennies or for free. Real journalism is rare these days.

Boiledbeetle · 27/02/2024 22:26

Mintytea11 · 27/02/2024 22:18

Jk is absolutely right. The trans activists are condemning the crime but saying she is still a woman “India” willoughby says “she” should be placed in a woman’s jail too.

To be fair I think I remember that India once asked on national tv if India was raped what prison should India go to so not the best person to listen to on crime and punishment.

BackToLurk · 27/02/2024 22:30

wordler · 27/02/2024 21:43

Additionally, the higher rates possibly relate to involvement in the sex industry.

That is definitely a factor - there's also a lot more research to be done in the US on how race impacts these statistics.

There was also a 2005 study that LGBT people are more likely to have been sexually assaulted in childhood than heterosexual and non-transgender children, but it was unconcluded on whether that perpetrators were reacting to some sort of gender-related cue which caused the assault - whether gender or sexual preference insecurity made the children more vulnerable, or if it was to 'teach them a lesson".

There’s another possibility re CSA, namely that some children’s response is to seek to change their sexed bodies to escape their trauma.

WickedSerious · 27/02/2024 22:31

Boiledbeetle · 27/02/2024 22:26

To be fair I think I remember that India once asked on national tv if India was raped what prison should India go to so not the best person to listen to on crime and punishment.

Or anything else really.

Waitwhat23 · 27/02/2024 22:48

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 27/02/2024 20:53

There's no doubt that trans women are going to be very vulnerable in a men's prison.

Where is the evidence of this? There was an instance where a transwoman was going to be moved out of the male estate into the women's as THEY had assaulted males and were a risk to them was there not?

That was possibly Tiffany Scott - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64438457.amp

A terrifyingly violent male who was approved for transfer into the female prison estate before the Isla Bryson situation came to light.

Totallymessed · 27/02/2024 22:49

wordler · 27/02/2024 20:59

Well out in the non-prison world transpeople are more likely to be victims of violent crime than the rest of us - a 2017 study in the US put it at four times more likely.

I am assuming that vulnerability extends to the prison environment.

I don't believe biological men should be in women's single sex spaces.

But I don't see why we can't create safe zones for transgender people at the same time as protecting women.

Could you link to the study? I'd be interested in reading it.

Totallymessed · 27/02/2024 22:50

@wordler sorry, I can see that you already have!

Waitwhat23 · 27/02/2024 22:53

Ah, I've just seen that Dues had mentioned Tiffany already.

It's grim the amount of hand wringing 'what about the men' apologists on here and elsewhere. Women in prison are vulnerable. 80% of female Scottish prisoners have had a previous head injury, most due to domestic violence.

But let's just stick the likes of Tiffany Scott in with them. Fucks sake.

AvacadoFieldsForever · 27/02/2024 23:03

We’re back to “soft gentle woodland creatures” aren’t we. It would be fascinating from a human behaviour standpoint if it wasn’t actually involving violent rapists and murderers self deciding to be housed with women who can’t do anything about it.

Waitwhat23 · 27/02/2024 23:10

And here's the thing. For those saying third spaces, the female prison estate in Scotland was specifically targeted by lobby groups in order to gain the end result of pushing self id into all single sex spaces and services. James Morton of the Scottish Trans Alliance stated it outright. It's not a bizarre oversight that has allowed violent male offenders, in many cases violent male offenders who have actually been incarcerated because of them committing sexual offences, into the female prison estate. It has been a concerted, and deliberate policy decision, set by the Scottish Prison system and agreed to by the Scottish Government.

Even now, the SPS is hiding evidence that women are being harmed, as an attempt to spin their updated policy as a good thing and those who are pushing this policy are evading questions in Parliament.

I keep saying this. Please take what's happening up here as an example of what happens when female prisoner's dignity, safety and well being don't matter and that's in policy

wordler · 27/02/2024 23:43

Waitwhat23 · 27/02/2024 23:10

And here's the thing. For those saying third spaces, the female prison estate in Scotland was specifically targeted by lobby groups in order to gain the end result of pushing self id into all single sex spaces and services. James Morton of the Scottish Trans Alliance stated it outright. It's not a bizarre oversight that has allowed violent male offenders, in many cases violent male offenders who have actually been incarcerated because of them committing sexual offences, into the female prison estate. It has been a concerted, and deliberate policy decision, set by the Scottish Prison system and agreed to by the Scottish Government.

Even now, the SPS is hiding evidence that women are being harmed, as an attempt to spin their updated policy as a good thing and those who are pushing this policy are evading questions in Parliament.

I keep saying this. Please take what's happening up here as an example of what happens when female prisoner's dignity, safety and well being don't matter and that's in policy

But that’s exactly why we should push for third spaces.

You have single sex spaces PLUS protection and space for lived gender preferences.

If you have a option which protects and respects all parties, who loses? How can politicians and authorities argue against keeping everyone safe?

It’s why the prison estate is the perfect place to trial and push for the third space option.

RogueFemale · 27/02/2024 23:53

fromorbit · 27/02/2024 09:10

Here is where you can complain. Metro used the most offensive sexist stuff on social media.

https://www.ipso.co.uk/complain/

Clause 1 (Accuracy)
i) The Press must take care not to publish inaccurate, misleading or distorted information or images, including headlines not supported by the text.

ii) A significant inaccuracy, misleading statement or distortion must be corrected, promptly and with due prominence, and — where appropriate — an apology published. In cases involving IPSO, due prominence should be as required by the regulator.

iii) A fair opportunity to reply to significant inaccuracies should be given, when reasonably called for.

iv) The Press, while free to editorialise and campaign, must distinguish clearly between comment, conjecture and fact.

Clause 12 (Discrimination)
i) The press must avoid prejudicial or pejorative reference to an individual's race, colour, religion, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation or to any physical or mental illness or disability.

https://www.ipso.co.uk/editors-code-of-practice/

I don't have a copy of the Metro thing to complain (am not on Twix), - do I need to post an image of the thing to complain?

Waitwhat23 · 27/02/2024 23:55

And those third spaces should be in the male estate. Not the female estate.

Women are currently just being used as useful resources.
thecritic.co.uk/the-revised-scottish-prison-service-transgender-prisoner-policy-is-not-fit-for-purpose/

From the Critic article -

'Whilst the revised policy starts from a default position of excluding men with a history of violence against women from the female estate, it also provides for access if the risk is not considered ‘unacceptable’ – or in plainer language, SPS thinks there is an “acceptable” level of risk it can create here. Whereas the interim guidelines required Ministerial sign-off in such circumstances, the revised policy relaxes this and requires only internal authorisation, thereby removing political accountability. For men not housed in the female estate, access may still be provided via work parties, activities, and programmes.'

So the men that even the SPS deem too violent to be housed in the female prison estate will still be 'provided access'
to female prisoners, because their need to 'socialise' with women is deemed so entirely important.

Third spaces? Fine. In the male estate. And without women being used as a handy resource.

Waitwhat23 · 27/02/2024 23:58

As pp's have said....

kpssinfo.org/the-transgender-unit-e-wing/

ErrolTheDragon · 28/02/2024 00:19

But that’s exactly why we should push for third spaces.

Which 'we' is that?
If you mean women in general or feminists in particular ... it's not what we should be having to be spending our time and energy on.
It should be clear and simple sex segregation and then, if they wish, the 'trans community' can push for third spaces if they want.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/02/2024 00:31

Mate, can I ask...the Internet has been around for for while now. Do you think this is the first time any of us have been met with a man talking egregious, solemn bollocks at us like a crap Gandhi?

You've made my night @NonPlayerCharacter, thank you! Wine

Gymnoob · 28/02/2024 01:35

They put a cat in a blender and then murdered someone. Ffs!

Does anyone care about their feelings.

Katie Hopkins said the same today on her tiktok daily news reel amongst other things like racism and saying London has become overtaken by Islamist’s. It’s coverage of stuff like this that turns people to the hard right.

Perhaps that’s actually what metro wants.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/02/2024 01:41

I think it's quite possible that is what Metro wants. Guaranteed relevance.

RedToothBrush · 28/02/2024 04:31

ErrolTheDragon · 28/02/2024 00:19

But that’s exactly why we should push for third spaces.

Which 'we' is that?
If you mean women in general or feminists in particular ... it's not what we should be having to be spending our time and energy on.
It should be clear and simple sex segregation and then, if they wish, the 'trans community' can push for third spaces if they want.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-68412620

It's fascinating what input and programming is doing to AI. Google's Gemini has produced a massive backlash due to overdoing the diversity.

When asked if it was ok to misgender Caitlin Jenner it replied 'Never. Not even to prevent nuclear apocalypse'. (Jenner said they were happy to prevent nuclear apocalypse though when personally asked).

Maybe Metro has been written by AI?

It's pissing people off massively though, and it's really unhelpful to increasing diversity.

Photo illustration of the Google Gemini logo displayed on a smartphone screen with Google's logo in the background

Why Google's 'woke' AI problem won't be an easy fix

The firm paused its AI image generation tool after claims it was over-correcting against the risk of being racist.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-68412620

RedToothBrush · 28/02/2024 04:32

Quoted the wrong post there!

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