Do you count GC feminists as LGBT?

[AdamRyan]

Apparently Kemi Badenoch is a bit confused about the difference, claiming wide consultation with LGBT groups but actually only meeting GC feminist groups.

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1760281735990738972?s=20

It reminds me a bit of when Maria Miller did the consultation on trans rights and didn't consult any feminists.

I would expect MPs to be consulting both sides, but more than that I'm kind of offended to be described as LGBT for my GC stance . Seems unfair to both gay people and feminists and like the old anti-feminist "you are all hairy lesbians" trope

Thanks for this , I always wondered where the term sealioning came from. It's such a good metaphor.

If you think there are no lesbian or bi women in GC groups you clearly know fuck all about either feminist or lesbian history (or the weaving and intertwining between the two)

Why wouldn't the LGB have anything to do with being GC?
The T group seem to think that the L should want to sleep with men and the T want to turn a sexual orientation into a genital preference.

The OP's words were:
".. I'm complaining she's tried to shoehorn GC feminists into LGB because I'm fed up with the "feminists are all lesbians" trope".

Make of that what you will. 😑

Because it’s not a 1:1 match of LGB to GC so they are not tied.

I don't even count lesbians as LGBT. LGBT is a political movement and social clique and whilst I sympathise with people who still think it's about them I don't believe it to be so. And frankly Lesbians and Gay men were always queer bedfellows without much in common beyond a temporary alliance of convenience (which arguably may have done more harm than good as despite the superficiality of terminology don't really have that much in common).

Frankly the current LGBT term and movement is more of a hindrance to gay and lesbian acceptance than it is a flag to rally around.

I don't think that. I don't think Badenoch should be using GC women as her main source about about gay peoples issues.
I'd be pretty fucked off of my work decided they were going to only speak to the male head pf inclusion, because he talks to lots of feminists.

I was pretty fucked off when Maria Miller didn't talk to any women when she was doing her transgender equality consultation. Maybe I shouldn't have been. After all, she is a woman. What more representation do I need?

I cannot believe the lengths you are all going to, to protect your image of Badenoch. She's dropped a clanger here and it says a lot about her. To me it shows how she thinks she knows best, no need to consult anyone else.

I don't think you can sealion your own thread

I can't stand Badenoch and nothing would posses me to vote tory. My comment had nothing to do with defending her.

If ever I saw evidence of someone proving they are a disengenous poster who comments in bad faith, saying this really proves it.

Can you explain a) how force teaming by TRAs by saying LGBT when they mean the T is ok b) how Stonewall represents the LGB in anyway when they redefined homosexuality to be along the lines of gender not sex when this is regarded as institutionally homophobic according to many prior and preexisting definitions (see wiki for more info).

And how it's much more important to demonstrate that Kemi Badenoch lied on a FOI request to be able to say 'Gotcha' to MN.

Bad faith isn't hard to spot but this post is a clear example which puts it in neon lights.

But there isn't a 1:1 match of LGB to T either so they shouldn't be tied.

The glaring issue here is your posting history though. I see you've finally accepted you do indeed hold some gc views. Well done.

❤️ for my favourote saying

OK, I apologise. I thought you were claiming that her only meeting GC feminists was fine.

I don't know what I've written that would give the impression i don't think there are lesbian or bi women in GC groups. Clearly there are.
I don't think you can refer to GC groups as LGBT groups, as she appears to have done. Hence my question:
Do you count GC feminists (I should have said feminist groups probably) as LGBT?

If you do, why?

Also in general your posting would have made more sense in the past had you clarified you were a radical feminist like firestone / purdy rather than greer, because some extreme radical feminist arguments do overlap with tra positions.

lime I've been posting here for over 10 years. I had to delete an old account on here after I got quoted on twitter by a TRA for my "transphobia". I'm completely comfortable with my GC views because I've held them for years and argued the toss plenty of times.

I'm not popular on here now because 1) I'm too "lite" and 2) I'm too "lefty" (despite the protestations this isn't a right wing board and that's a TRA smear).

The only person on the receiving end of being accused of bad faith/ sealioning/ stupid/ disingenuous/ tribal blah blah is me. I'm not dishing that out, whatever people say about me calling them a nazi (which I never would do). It's a bit tiring but also makes me dig my heels in because I hate bullying and I think echo chambers are destroying humanity.

I am pretty much ready to give up on FWR to be honest which is a shame because the women on here taught me a lot about feminism. But hey ho. Nothing lasts for ever and being unpleasant to other women is obviously now the done thing.

Also because I've been here for so long I know the problem isn't me. This relentless accusatory "bad faith/reflect on your style" thing is new, it's only really with posters who hang out on this board and it's not something that's been raised before for most of my (fairly prolific) MN posting history.

What does any of that have to do with my post, which is about Kemi Badenoch claiming she engaged LGBT groups when the only evidence is she engaged GC groups?
I'm not gay. I don't follow stonewall and I'm not in any LGBT groups so why on earth you expect me to explain why the force teaming is OK and what stonewall are doing is beyond me.

It is messy if you think about it.

LGBT now is generally defined to include gender non conforming people which would cover most feminists. Of course the thing is gender non conformists whether male or female generally in the past didn't announce their status they just observably broke gender norms in dress etc.

Honestly, it's the height of enough to complain she didn't engage LGB groups, when the whole fucking trans borg has gone out of its way to make sure there aren't any.

And if further proof were needed, we've got transactactivists on another thread saying that 'most lesbians are trans inclusive', and a lesbian only club will fail to thrive, because it will only be frequented by 'gender critical lesbians.'

If lesbians weren't targeted to become men, or date men, but were allowed to thrive, you'd be able to fall over them in the street. Instead of which, they've got to go underground, and then Kemi gets it in the neck for not being able to find any.

Bloody hell. It's not as though the LGB alliance isn't relentlessly targeted to be shut down every five seconds.

I never said they should. In fact I said they shouldn’t.

Gay Men’s Network have been engaging with MPs and members of the HoL across all parties.

Here’s founder, Dennis Kavanagh on Kemi: https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/12/07/kemi-is-right-trans-ideology-is-a-threat-to-gay-kids/amp/

and here’s a mention of The Lesbian Project (founded by Julie Bindel and Kathleen Stock) on Hansard:

https://www.parallelparliament.co.uk/mp/kemi-badenoch/debate/2023-12-06/commons/commons-chamber/gender-recognition

And according to this very TRA-sided article, Kemi met with LGBA all the way back in 2020:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/uk-equalities-minister-antitrans-group/

And again in 2022, when ‘ministers also met with Stonewall’

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/minister-met-lobbyists-ahead-of-conversion-therapy-u-turn/

I don't think that. I don't think Badenoch should be using GC women as her main source about about gay peoples issues.

Here you go, Adam, now you have gay men's network backing her to the hilt.

"Kemi is right: trans ideology is a threat to gay kids

A lot changed yesterday. An area of politics that is too often dismissed as ‘toxic’, where many fear to tread, was dragged into the sunlight of open debate – something that trans activists have always feared. Gender ideology now stands exposed for what it is – as a threat to the rights of women and of gay people."