Do you count GC feminists as LGBT?

[AdamRyan]

Apparently Kemi Badenoch is a bit confused about the difference, claiming wide consultation with LGBT groups but actually only meeting GC feminist groups.

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1760281735990738972?s=20

It reminds me a bit of when Maria Miller did the consultation on trans rights and didn't consult any feminists.

I would expect MPs to be consulting both sides, but more than that I'm kind of offended to be described as LGBT for my GC stance . Seems unfair to both gay people and feminists and like the old anti-feminist "you are all hairy lesbians" trope

Whereas the meetings spreadsheet is meetings about schools and a letter to the education minister. Totally different topic.

I assume Bradshaw was referring to this exchange:
Christine Jardine: Could she tell us which organisations in this country concerned with LGBT rights and with human rights generally she consulted on this statement, and what their responses and recommendations were?

Badenoch:...We have engaged with numerous LGBT groups, but the fact of the matter is that many of them support self-ID. That is not this Government’s policy. Stonewall does not decide the law in this country—

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2023-12-06/debates/E7306EC2-EFCB-4331-BD82-F01FDF67CCBF/GenderRecognition

So Bradshaw has asked which groups, turns out none.
I don't support self ID but I do support all parties being consulted and to me this is just as bad as when Miller tried to introduce self ID without consulting women. With the added bonus of Badenoch actually appearing to tell fibs.

Like I say though, I'm sure the LGB groups she has engaged with will pop up if she's being misrepresented

Hitting the news now
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/lgbt-ben-bradshaw-prime-minister-commons-canada-b1140671.html

Yup. This.

Good link that appears to show that BB's focus was on transgender people and not, as you suggested, same-sex attracted people

Adam

Transgender Trend, who apparently you say she consulted, deal with thousands and thousands of emails from trans kids, and parents of trans kids.

Hence why Stephanie Davis Arai can confidently state the reasons why she thinks they identify as transgender.

Or did you just mean transactivist groups?

No I mean groups of same sex attracted people.
I think its pretty weak to claim two GC groups can speak to all issues of same sex attracted people and personally was outraged when Miller didn't speak to any women before. It seems pretty hypocritical to now say that women can represent gay men, for example.

The question for the FOI wasn't about transgender rights. The question was about LGBT groups. She clearly hasn't met any.

I think its a pretty fucking big deal she said something untrue in a debate. And I think its a pretty fucking big deal she's not consulting wider as minister of women and Equalities.

And I do question her views on both feminists and gay people that she put forward a GC feminist group as evidence of her "extensive consultation".

Hadn't realised quite how far the Kemi love on this board went. The contortions to make out shes done nothing wrong are quite something.

The question for the FOI wasn't about transgender rights. The question was about LGBT groups. She clearly hasn't met any.

Transgender trend? They deal with thousands of trans kids and their parents.

Given that identifying as trans covers autistic children, children from sex offender parents, middle-aged cross dressers, men with AGP, non-binary navel gazers and drag queens, i'm sure you would appreciate that the concept of 'not meeting people who identify as T', is a bit of a movable feast.

What I'm sure you won't acknowledge is - that's the whole bloody point.

Well AR, that's cos the 6 of us (plus dog) are all (checks notes) pearl clutching right wing nazi aligned old bigots.

And of course, guilt by association means that anyone posting on this board is of course a pearl cl............. 😂😂😂😂

... oh and let's not forget eunuch proponents. Including kids.

If Badenoch had met any gay campaign groups (not trans ones) she would have said. It would have shown.
She didn't. And in fact seems to be taking a particular line like this board, which is there are no groups representing gay interests and they are all captured by the T.
I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that's true. And it's not good enough to not engage with a whole group you are meant to represent. How, for example, can she update the EA to protect gay people if she doesn't speak to them?

Well AR, that's cos the 6 of us (plus dog) are all (checks notes) pearl clutching right wing nazi aligned old bigots.
Stop that. I never called anyone Nazi aligned or a bigot. I really object to you putting words into my mouth.

Can you post a link to the FOI request/response so that we can see what it actually says? Or just a screenshot of the whole thing would do.

If the FOI request only concerned groups that she had met, then the response wouldn't list groups that she had only exchanged letters or emails with, yes? All of which is engagement.

I can't speak for anyone else, because I'm not taking a line.

I was under the impression you felt she hadn't consulted trans people. I'm not on Twitter so can only see what you've posted.

So now I think you're saying she hasn't consulted LGB groups, only gender critical women.

Well they're not mutually exclusive, obviously. In fact there's a massive overlap.

But maybe she'll publish a list about how many trans groups the government have historically been listening to, how many LGB groups they've historically been listening to, and how many gender critical women they've historically been listening to.

I'd be more than happy if she adds them all up, and redresses any balance.

Yes that's right datun.

I don't think that the government should only listen to GC women now to redress the historic balance. That would not be good.

@AdamRyan

I think its a pretty fucking big deal she said something untrue in a debate. And I think its a pretty fucking big deal she's not consulting wider as minister of women and Equalities.

Please don't beat about the bush. What you actually mean is "the Tories are bad people and you must not vote for them."

You may believe in women's rights and you may be gender critical but those views are secondary to your anti-Tory agenda.

Frankly, I think it would be excellent.

But you know what, you can always write to your MP.

You're a genius Datun!
Just imagine if she (or anyone in government) adds up the total for all the conferences, the meetings, the diversity champions schemes, the allies, the funded resources, the civil service time devoted to lobby groups, the bloody flags and redresses the balance to include women 😱

Sex matters, TT, FPFW, WPUK, SSA & others will get government funding to the tune of millions of £££ with over a decade worth of meetings, awards, peerages, flags, days of remembrance, lanyards and all the rest. And nobody will be able to moan about a couple of meetings as they'll practically live alongside the government. Women can put our purses away as we finally get a share of the attentions and power that's been given to all the queer theory groups.

She said she had ‘engaged’ with them, not met them, which could be true.

They may have been gay people or trans people. The term LGBT is not clear.

What is unlikely to be true is that she met with two ‘anti trans’ groups rather than with two groups seeking to protect women and children’s rights and well being.

AdamRyan · Today 19:48

“If Badenoch had met any gay campaign groups (not trans ones) she would have said. It would have shown.
She didn't. And in fact seems to be taking a particular line like this board, which is there are no groups representing gay interests and they are all captured by the T.”

Everyone on this board knows about the LGB alliance and some will know if the Gay Men’s Network ( who has a brilliant and eloquent spokesman). Then there are psychologists who know the links between gender dysphoria and being gay/ or homophobic attitudes to gender non-conforming children. These groups represent gay interests.

I forgot to say these groups represent gay interests without being captured by the T.

Nice of you to presume you know what I think.
I am not "anti-Tory". I don't like the Conservatives since Johnson because they have undermined democracy. Kemi misleading the house is just another example of that.

Hence why I said what you quoted. It is a big deal to me. It would be a big deal if any government was doing it.

There is very little point writing to my MP. He's a true blue Tory who was in trouble many moons ago for taking an uncleared aide to Top Secret meetings and having to resign over it. He also think sex offenders should be anonymous until convicted, which is quite some safeguarding risk. So I doubt anything I have to say will register with him.